Power sockets for Kettle

[JaseH]

Anyone know anything about power connectors for hot environments?

The IEC C13/C14 connectors I've been using on my kettle are starting to show signs of not holding up to the heat. The plastic around the pins has started to scorch. From what I can see the C15/C16 format power connectors are meant for kettle and hot environment applications but I cant find much info on why - is the plastic a more heat resistant material?

Any other suggestions for power connector options on a 3600W kettle element? The female connector is mounted in a cast aluminium box on the outside of my kettle so there's probably a far amount of heat transfer happening.

 

[jaypes]

Without going to porcelain type insulated connectors the only other thing I can think of is hard-wiring it.

How long has it been there, if it has been years then just replace the female socket from Jaycar (min $)

It could also be that your power cord is actually rated for 10A and not 15A, hence it heating up the connector as well. Any scorching or blackening of the cord or socket connections?

 

[pcmfisher]

Are those connectors rated to 15amp?

I thought they were only 10amp.

 

[mofox1]

Good timing Frothie... Just waiting on punches before I put a C20 socket on my kettle. Based on your experience I might see if I can get any insulation between the box and the kettle. And might think about a dorky looking heatsink too, just for good measure.

 

[JaseH]

Without going to porcelain type insulated connectors the only other thing I can think of is hard-wiring it.

How long has it been there, if it has been years then just replace the female socket from Jaycar (min $)

It could also be that your power cord is actually rated for 10A and not 15A, hence it heating up the connector as well. Any scorching or blackening of the cord or socket connections?

Don't really want to hard wire as I like to remove the kettle from my stand to clean it after a brew. It has lasted a couple of years, I just happened to notice the scorching during clean up after my last brew. I'll give the C15/C16 sockets a go as they are supposed to be rated for higher heat and are a straight replacement without any mods. There is apparently a C15A/C16A connector that is rated for up to 155C but they don't appear to be commonly available.

Are those connectors rated to 15amp?

I thought they were only 10amp.

Some are 10amp some are stamped for 15amp.

Good timing Frothie... Just waiting on punches before I put a C20 socket on my kettle. Based on your experience I might see if I can get any insulation between the box and the kettle. And might think about a dorky looking heatsink too, just for good measure.

Not sure if the heat is coming from the body of the kettle or through the wires connected to the element?

 

[mofox1]

Could be a bad idea, so shoot it down if you want, but you could put some ventilation holes in the bottom of the box (reducing the impact of the loss of waterproofness). Maybe use an aquarium pump to push some cool air in?

Dunno, idle ramblings...

EDIT: I'm shooting my own idea down. Shouldn't just type the first thing I think of. The aquarium pump idea might still be valid if it's sealed up nicely.

 

[mofox1]

Not sure if the heat is coming from the body of the kettle or through the wires connected to the element?

Fair call... Are the connecting wires thick enough? It might not be heat transmission from the element, if the wires were underrated then they could be acting as heat elements themselves... :blink:

 

[sp0rk]

If you're really worried about heat affecting your connection (I wouldn't be), your best bet would be a remote socket, with either the wires leading from the element to the socket covered in a fibreglass sleeve
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-sleeves/6681245/
or an actual glass fibre coated wire (which I couldn't find a link for, for some reason)

 

[TheWiggman]

If the plastic around the pins is starting to scorch that indicates to me that there's too much current going through it or you have poor continuity through your pin/s.
A quick look online says the C13/14 cables are typically rated to 6A. According to the 60320 Standard though these pins are only rated for up to 10A.

For your application, you'll want a C19/20 type plug. You can buy the cord from Jaycar, but you'll have to shop somewhere else for the socket. Otherwise go something industrial from RS or the like but I can't suggest anything specific.

ED: Link: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/7769135/
Cheap as. I might get one for my kettle and do away with that damn cable.

 

[mofox1]

If the plastic around the pins is starting to scorch that indicates to me that there's too much current going through it or you have poor continuity through your pin/s.
A quick look online says the C13/14 cables are typically rated to 6A. According to the 60320 Standard though these pins are only rated for up to 10A.

For your application, you'll want a C19/20 type plug. You can buy the cord from Jaycar, but you'll have to shop somewhere else for the socket. Otherwise go something industrial from RS or the like but I can't suggest anything specific.

ED: Link: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/7769135/
Cheap as. I might get one for my kettle and do away with that damn cable.

Yep - thems the ones I got.

Goes into a die cast aluminium box (111 x 60 x 54mm) from jaycar: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HB5063&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=987#1
You can get the lead from there too: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PS4124

Note (cautious me): The RS C20 socket is only rated to 70 deg C. I haven't assembled my kit yet (still sitting in boxes in the shed) so I don't know if the box will heat up that much.

(Other me): It should be fine - the box is aluminum, and the contact point to the kettle (SS washer) is small relative to the box's size, so it should be able to dissipate enough heat. It might depend on how much the "base" of the element heats up...?

Element box temp is now on my test list.

@TheWiggman - you've got an electric kit, is the box too hot to touch when the kettle is going at a full boil?

 

[JaseH]

If the plastic around the pins is starting to scorch that indicates to me that there's too much current going through it or you have poor continuity through your pin/s.
A quick look online says the C13/14 cables are typically rated to 6A. According to the 60320 Standard though these pins are only rated for up to 10A.

It could be the pins, the scorching was around the socket pin areas. The cabling I made up myself from heavy enough gauge stuff to handle the current, I was told the plugs would handle it ok but maybe the combination of heat from the kettle element and the excessive current might be a problem for them. The issue with the C19/C20 plugs are that they are physically a bit larger from memory, so I would need to redesign my element cabling box. But if that is what's required?

 

[mofox1]

ED: Link: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/7769135/
Cheap as. I might get one for my kettle and do away with that damn cable.

And free shipping from RS too. I almost felt guilty only buying two of 'em.

Then I though of how much I've spent on the rest of my kit and got over it pretty quickly.

 

[mofox1]

It could be the pins, the scorching was around the socket pin areas. The cabling I made up myself from heavy enough gauge stuff to handle the current, I was told the plugs would handle it ok but maybe the combination of heat from the kettle element and the excessive current might be a problem for them. The issue with the C19/C20 plugs are that they are physically a bit larger from memory, so I would need to redesign my element cabling box. But if that is what's required?

Full schematics on the RS site - hopefully will fit in the existing box.

The box I got from jaycar was only $12, so no big deal if you need to replace it.

 

[booargy]

If it only near the pins check your plug could be a high resistance joint. Should be under .5 ohm.

 

[TheWiggman]

Re: my Al box, I haven't actually touched it while running but I'd guess it would get very hot. Wouldn't be surprised if it were higher or lower than 70°C.

Fair point about the temp rating, I didn't notice that. I'm doing a brew this weekend so I'll get back to you on how hot mine gets.

I'd say you've most likely got hot joins from underrated pins Frothie. I had a hot join on my 15A plug and it got hot enough at the powerpoint that I couldn't physically remove the plug after 60 mins of boiling. I changed the plug and was good to go.

I can't suggest a more suitable plug for you though sorry. Maybe these? Rated to 90°C, 250V 16A with earth:
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-power-connectors/1786856/
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-power-connectors/1559474/

 

[mofox1]

Re: my Al box, I haven't actually touched it while running but I'd guess it would get very hot. Wouldn't be surprised if it were higher or lower than 70°C.

Fair point about the temp rating, I didn't notice that. I'm doing a brew this weekend so I'll get back to you on how hot mine gets.

I'd say you've most likely got hot joins from underrated pins Frothie. I had a hot join on my 15A plug and it got hot enough at the powerpoint that I couldn't physically remove the plug after 60 mins of boiling. I changed the plug and was good to go.

I can't suggest a more suitable plug for you though sorry. Maybe these? Rated to 90°C, 250V 16A with earth:
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-power-connectors/1786856/
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-power-connectors/1559474/

Cheers - will appreciate the feedback.

Good info RE the plug. My lead is a "complete" 15A mains to IEC C20 from jaycar, so I'd would have assumed that the plug's contact resistance is appropriate... but it is certainly another worthwhile thing to check beforehand. (another item on the test list). I'd prefer not to burn fingers when changing the lead from HLT to kettle.

Mick

 

[old mike]

Check the wattage of your element, I have a similar problem. I plugged it directly into a 10amp power point as the wattage was supposed to be 2400w and found the plug was getting hot. I then plugged it into my control panel which has a volt/amp display and found it was pulling 12amps which means that it is 2800w not 2400w. I now use the manual control on my panel to regulate the supply to the element. No more hot plugs.

 

[MaltyHops]

Note (cautious me): The RS C20 socket is only rated to 70 deg C. I haven't assembled my kit yet (still sitting in boxes in the shed) so I don't know if the box will heat up that much.

IEC C21 C22 couplers are rated up to 16A/155C

 

[mofox1]

IEC C21 C22 couplers are rated up to 16A/155C

Indeed they are. Can't find them though!

Mick

 

[MaltyHops]

Could try shop.strato.de CEE-T155-plugs VDE 0625 / IEC 60320 / C21 ?

There are other results from Google but yeah, they're all overseas.