Politics

[booargy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_passport

Does this mean they didn't have passports until March 2013?

 

[pcmfisher]

OK Rowy: In the sober light of day, I'm going to try and summarise your argument as there's a few points that remain unclear.

1. People with tens of thousands of dollars who are not genuine refugees but in search of wealth, climb onto substandard sea vessels.
2. They initially have identification papers but deliberately lose these on their voyage as these would prove they were not genuine refugees (not sure how - do they get 'refugee' stamped on the papers by any persecuting governments etc before they leave)?
3. Having spent all this money, these privileged few are content to live on $250 odd a week because they have no wish to work. This is riches in their eyes, despite the tens of thousands they spent on their boat fare.
4. This is unfair on people in UN refugee camps so the best solution is to lock them up in third world conditions in refugee camps. Why don't we consider sending them to UN camps? Why does the UN condemn our offshore processing policies?

If people who arrive on boats discard their papers because the papers will prove them not to be refugees, how come the majority, after lengthy processing times are found to be genuine still?
If statistics show the majority of refugees are welfare dependent, don't you think the fact that being found a genuine refugee and allowed into the community but not having the right to work might account for some of this? Welfare in this country is a trap and genuine refugees receive a smaller portion than citizens.

I'm confused by your perspective Rowy.

Should there be a larger limit on the number of refugees/asylum seekers processed by Australia?

Should there be a limit on how much we spend on this issue?

If there is limits, what do you think they should be?

But more importantly, what do we do when these limits are reached?

 

[Rowy]

OK Rowy: In the sober light of day, I'm going to try and summarise your argument as there's a few points that remain unclear.

1. People with tens of thousands of dollars who are not genuine refugees but in search of wealth, climb onto substandard sea vessels.
2. They initially have identification papers but deliberately lose these on their voyage as these would prove they were not genuine refugees (not sure how - do they get 'refugee' stamped on the papers by any persecuting governments etc before they leave)?
3. Having spent all this money, these privileged few are content to live on $250 odd a week because they have no wish to work. This is riches in their eyes, despite the tens of thousands they spent on their boat fare.
4. This is unfair on people in UN refugee camps so the best solution is to lock them up in third world conditions in refugee camps. Why don't we consider sending them to UN camps? Why does the UN condemn our offshore processing policies?

If people who arrive on boats discard their papers because the papers will prove them not to be refugees, how come the majority, after lengthy processing times are found to be genuine still?
If statistics show the majority of refugees are welfare dependent, don't you think the fact that being found a genuine refugee and allowed into the community but not having the right to work might account for some of this? Welfare in this country is a trap and genuine refugees receive a smaller portion than citizens.

I'm confused by your perspective Rowy.

1./ What they borrow or put together allows them to no longer have a subsitence living. No welfare over there.
2./ DFAT do checks through our embassies to establish the bona fides of a persons claim, who you are, where you come from, coud you have possibly been oppressed......get rid of the papers which you need to fly to Indonesia.....and you can then become whoever you want to be.
3./ Its the ability to no longer have to live on a subsitence living.
4./ they jumped the queue. They gambled and lost.

Sorry mate but because of the cost to process and the unavailability ove contrary evidencectheir stories cannot be disproved. If they had ket their papers who knows. Also the welfare stats do not include thse on bridging visas and not allowed to work. My figures are based on a 5yr model. Welfare is a trap ad a costly one for this country. We need to support those that need it and not accept able body peope that are seeking it.

 

[Rowy]

Should there be a larger limit on the number of refugees/asylum seekers processed by Australia?

Should there be a limit on how much we spend on this issue?

If there is limits, what do you think they should be?

But more importantly, what do we do when these limits are reached?

We should accept throughthe UNHCR process more refugees. What that number is I do not know. We should not accept people that are jumping the que. This country was built on egalatarian principles......if tou have the money to jump the que you should not get a start before someone who doesn't have the cash.

 

[manticle]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one Rowy. Anyone that spends everything they have to risk their lives in a leaky boat so they can come here and live on $250 a week get empathy from me, not censure. I see so many hard working immigrants all the time that I struggle to believe that all boat people (and somehow only boat people?) are dole bludgers.

Jumped the queue? It's not a line for a bank teller mate. People are trying to continue living, raise and protect families, etc. In many cases you're talking a matter of life and death, not waiting patiently for a sandwich.

Anyway cheers - vote how you see fit and we'll enjoy a pint some time. Let's just not talk about boats when we're pissed.

 

[Rowy]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one Rowy. Anyone that spends evrything they have to risk their lives in a leaky boat so they can come here and live on $250 a week get empathy from me, not censure. I see so many hard working immigrants all the time that I struggle to believe that all boat people (and somehow only boat people?) are dole bludgers.

Jumped the queue? It's not a line for a bank teller mate. People are trying to continue living, raise and protect families, etc. In many cases you're talking a matter of life and death, not waiting patiently for a sandwich.

Anyway cheers - vote how you s fit and w'll enjoy a pint some time. Let's just not talk about boats when we're pissed.

Cheers Oracle always appreciate your point of view!

 

[jlm]

Lets say hypothetically that perhaps they're not arriving in Indo by plane Rowy. Let's say perhaps a lot of the folks wanting to come here arrive there by boat. Tamils from Sri Lanka for example. Or lets perhaps imagine that a Hazara from Afghanistan who's sold everything he has then borrows money from his relatives to pay to a people smuggler in Quetta in the hope he may one day bring his family over here one day gets shipped off to another destination......then another.....is urged to ditch any paper work that may lead to formal investigation into some ones origin by the people they're paying money to because the country they're temporarily residing in has perhaps a hundred million citizens to keep track of and really can't be fucked keeping track of transients who're only hanging around for a while before moving on again.

Hypothetically.

Also CM2 want his fingers back.

 

[jlm]

Also am amazed by the amount of people spouting the line "Jumping the queue". As time goes on the more I see of folks who "grew here not flew here" (I saw it on a shirt once! How witty!) the more I'm amazed at the lack of patience in the average spoilt honkey. Can't even wait in line at the smoko shop without having a whing

 

[Rowy]

Lets say hypothetically that perhaps they're not arriving in Indo by plane Rowy. Let's say perhaps a lot of the folks wanting to come here arrive there by boat. Tamils from Sri Lanka for example. Or lets perhaps imagine that a Hazara from Afghanistan who's sold everything he has then borrows money from his relatives to pay to a people smuggler in Quetta in the hope he may one day bring his family over here one day gets shipped off to another destination......then another.....is urged to ditch any paper work that may lead to formal investigation into some ones origin by the people they're paying money to because the country they're temporarily residing in has perhaps a hundred million citizens to keep track of and really can't be fucked keeping track of transients who're only hanging around for a while before moving on again.

Hypothetically.

Also CM2 want his fingers back.

Tell that to the person in the UNHCR camp. I'm sure they'd agree.

 

[Rowy]

Also am amazed by the amount of people spouting the line "Jumping the queue". As time goes on the more I see of folks who "grew here not flew here" (I saw it on a shirt once! How witty!) the more I'm amazed at the lack of patience in the average spoilt honkey. Can't even wait in line at the smoko shop without having a whing

What makes you think I'm a honkey. Grew here not flew here........interesting.......you have commented without reading or perhaps understanding what I said. I suppose those waiting in line at the UNHCR smoko line would agree with you.

 

[jlm]

Again. I'm impressed by someone's respect for the queue who's never had to queue for their life. I'd ask you to put yourself in the position of a person in one of those camps, or who had no chance to even get to such a place, who by begging borrowing or stealing could get out of that situation and perhaps be free from whatever led you to leave your home in the first place. I'd assume you have such respect for "the queue" you wouldn't take that opportunity if it arose?

Your constant bleating about people with the money to do so and jump this queue does sound rather socialist. Let in all refugees by need and not want.......



*Oh, the previous post wasn't directed at you, just spoilt whitefolk (like myself) in general.

 

[Rowy]

Again. I'm impressed by someone's respect for the queue who's never had to queue for their life. I'd ask you to put yourself in the position of a person in one of those camps, or who had no chance to even get to such a place, who by begging borrowing or stealing could get out of that situation and perhaps be free from whatever led you to leave your home in the first place. I'd assume you have such respect for "the queue" you wouldn't take that opportunity if it arose?

Your constant bleating about people with the money to do so and jump this queue does sound rather socialist. Let in all refugees by need and not want.......



*Oh, the previous post wasn't directed at you, just spoilt whitefolk (like myself) in general.

Shouldn't we decide who comes here in a fair and orderley manner? Also should man's natural predeliction to take first and ask later be simply accepted as a reason to usurp the rights of those that have resisted or are not fortunate enough to be able to do so? You mention socialism and I take it as a tongue in cheek reference..........should we start on how socialist countries treat illegal arrivals?

 

[jlm]

Indeed it was. I really wish AHB would introduce a sarcasm font. Mostly for my benefit. Wouldn't be needed for those previous three sentences 'cause I was serious then. Anyway, still serious again now.

As for the above points, I'm glad you've put them forward in the form of a question as everyone is going to have a different perception of what's "fair and orderly".

For my money I think we're a country that has the opportunity to do a lot more helping people who flee from their homeland, which must be an incredibly hard thing to do (although I found it pretty easy fleeing from QLD, place is fucked, [insert sarcasm font]), and instead of putting some of the people who are doing this in a camp, I'd like to see them integrated into whichever part of the country they're living in. Helping them find work or even volunteering, learn the language, shit that may help if you're gonna stay here. There's plenty of people out there who are willing to help.

I'd be interested to see how you'd like to see things happen.......There's been a fair bit of "you're not reading what I'm saying" directed to myself and others, so I'd like to know. The way I'm getting your reactions to other's posts is that you're against some/all/don't really know... refugees getting welfare, against boat people jumping UNHCR queues......Not trying to put keystrokes into your keyboard but its the way its coming across to me. So is a certified and stamped dude from a camp in....lets say......Sudan.......more entitled our monetary assistance than some one from Sri Lanka who arrived on a boat? Not being a smart ass here.......You have a strong opinion on the subject so lets hear how you'd like things to go down.

The next question.....weeeeeeelllllllllllll......We're really starting to delve into the philosophy thread rather than the politics thread.......I guess I'll answer that with a "Sorta? Like I would if I was in that place?".Where's Lecterfan.

Edit: there, they're, their

 

[Liam_snorkel]

This is turning into an ideologies thread, lets get back to making fun of politicians!

Holy shit this woman is dense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1SFf8t-ko

 

[Mardoo]

This is turning into an ideologies thread, lets get back to making fun of politicians!

Holy shit this woman is dense:

There's dense and then there's shitstupid.

And praise Allah, The Lord, Jesus and my kettle that she's not a politician yet.

Honestly, sometimes I want to start an island nation, call it Dumfuknia and give folks like her a boat and say "Go to, luv."

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Also, Peter Beattie used to look somewhat like James Hetfield:

 

[manticle]

I never understood why people want to prevent one nation candidates from speaking. They sabotage themselves so beautifully.

She'd get my vote - somewhere around 64 on the list.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Hanson was on ABC radio earlier in the week, it was a riot, so many good one liners, such as "listen Annie, I'm not a loser, I'm not."

 

[pcmfisher]

This is turning into an ideologies thread, lets get back to making fun of politicians!

Holy shit this woman is dense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1SFf8t-ko

OK, I'm convinced. I will be marking my ballot paper working from the bottom up.

 

[Dave70]

What would that silly woman know anyway.
I really hope to see more halal and kosher products hitting out shelves.
Personally I get far more enjoyment from my lamb roast if I know the animal died trussed up whilst facing Mecca and had it's throat ritualistically slashed.