Politics

[Rowy]

exactly - pretty much anyone who isn't shiite has been trying to get out of Iran since the revolution. DO they 'count' as refugees, well I don't know it's not my job to work out, but I can't blame them for wanting to get out of there. Not to mention the million plus Afghans and Iraqi refugees in Iran itself.

How do they get here?

 

[Rowy]

ESB.........Northdown and Challenger my best yet!

 

[Liam_snorkel]

walk, car, bus, boat, plane - I don't see how it is relevant?

 

[kevo]

As usual you put tne best argument....but papers? Could one of you people please tell me why if you are a genuine refugee you would ditch your papers? This is at least my 4th request. By the way just starterd holidays and brewing a Stout tomorrow......now those papers? One cogent argument please about papers.....just one?

I'm brewing a stout tomorrow too!!

Damn those immigrants coming to our country, bringing their delicious beer styles and tasty food.

 

[Rowy]

I'm brewing a stout tomorrow too!!

Damn those immigrants coming to our country, bringing their delicious beer styles and tasty food.

Couldn't agree more! But.......we need to know who they are and if they can prove who they are and they are refugees then let's get them on board along with the poor bastards that are in the UNHRC refugee camps all overvthe word that cannotafford to ay.

 

[Rowy]

You're suggesting that people of means are paying the equivalent of a deposit for a house in Thornbury to travel halfway across the world, often separated from close family members, to take advantage of our welfare system?
You ever tried to live on welfare mate? It's not a great life. You think those people don't want to work? What impediments are there to newly found able-bodied refugees finding work here instead of jumping into the dole queue?
I guess if it was made a bit easier for them to meaninfully contribute, people would be up in arms that they're 'taking our jobs'.
Another easy target. Not just welfare recipients but foreign welfare recipients. My partners grandparents came here on a boat Rowy. Hard to completely remove the emotion.
And yes - they paid.

Manticle you do not want to know my early life.........your now entering an area that the bureau of statistics now ave figures on.....you lose. ..........our welfare system is more money and entitlement than most of these people could ever imagine. Particulary amongst some of the refugees its almost 90%

 

[Rowy]

walk, car, bus, boat, plane - I don't see how it is relevant?

One word PAPERS!

 

[manticle]

My question was about the impediments (legal) to new refugees being allowed to work, not about the number of new refugees on welfare. The idea that AU welfare = comparative riches is also incongrous with your suggestion that they are always people of means.

 

[manticle]

The third part of my point is that even IF you buy into the demonising idea of rich queue jumping dole bludgers, why is our solution condemning them to substandard living conditions in aread of civil unrest.

And that's a big IF. Blaming victims makes consciences rest easy.

 

[Rowy]

My question was about the impediments (legal) to new refugees being allowed to work, not about the number of new refugees on welfare. The idea that AU welfare = comparative riches is also incongrous with your suggestion that they are always people of means.

Two seperate issues mate. One is before your claim being decided you are not allowed towork is different to people that decide, through whatever means, to cash upmand throw the dice.......again mate and you are one of the smartest blokes on this site.....I ask you PAPERS?

 

[Rowy]

The third part of my point is that even IF you buy into the demonising idea of rich queue jumping dole bludgers, why is our solution condemning them to substandard living conditions in aread of civil unrest.
And that's a big IF. Blaming victims makes consciences rest easy.

Well lets demonise them over the people that can't pay.........shall we?

 

[manticle]

I'd try and answer your question about papers if I knew what it was.

Are you suggesting people come across on shitty boats with id and throw it away so no-one knows who they are? Are they all dole bludging al queda subversives?

Freemasons? Ed Gein's nephews?
I don't actually know what you mean but I'm presuming that few, if any 'boat people' have id and that makes them suspect in your eyes?

 

[Rowy]

Wrong mate......most if not all toss their ID's. they come across in shitty boats and toss their ID's. True Story. No one is suggesting terrorists are coming over but people that have are genuine claim are being bought out.......PAPERS!

Oh noes, they're taking our entitlements.

 

[Rowy]

I'm up for another jug! Anyone else?

 

[Rowy]

I'd try and answer your question about papers if I knew what it was.
Are you suggesting people come across on shitty boats with id and throw it away so no-one knows who they are? Are they all dole bludging al queda subversives?
Freemasons? Ed Gein's nephews?
I don't actually know what you mean but I'm presuming that few, if any 'boat people' have id and that makes them suspect in your eyes?

Your playing cute there Manticle. You don't toss your papers because your a terrorist........you toss them because you can't prove you are a refugee. Unlike the people waiting their turn in the camps.

 

[manticle]

So what solutions are being proffered to help the genuine ones while we lock up the falsies in PNG?
I presume you'll be voting labor this election due to their 'we're the toughest, nastiest border protectors yet' stance.

I'm having another pint or two but might leave this discussion till tomorrow. Got dead birds to draw.

 

[Rowy]

So what solutions are being proffered to help the genuine ones while we lock up the falsies in PNG?
I presume you'll be voting labor this election due to their 'we're the toughest, nastiest border protectors yet' stance.
I'm having another pint or two but might leave this discussion till tomorrow. Got dead birds to draw.

I'll let you reflect on my previous comments mate. Intelligent comment and reparte' is always fun.

 

[Rowy]

So what solutions are being proffered to help the genuine ones while we lock up the falsies in PNG?
I presume you'll be voting labor this election due to their 'we're the toughest, nastiest border protectors yet' stance.
I'm having another pint or two but might leave this discussion till tomorrow. Got dead birds to draw.

Well Narua have just pulled out and PNG aren't sure anymore. So looks lie Kev's solution hasn't stuck. Pink batts anyone?

 

[booargy]

If they are that worried about stopping boats I reckon they should get the navy to sink a few. Nobody would know. Anyone who doesn't drown ship them back to tell others what happened. Problem solved.

 

[manticle]

OK Rowy: In the sober light of day, I'm going to try and summarise your argument as there's a few points that remain unclear.

1. People with tens of thousands of dollars who are not genuine refugees but in search of wealth, climb onto substandard sea vessels.
2. They initially have identification papers but deliberately lose these on their voyage as these would prove they were not genuine refugees (not sure how - do they get 'refugee' stamped on the papers by any persecuting governments etc before they leave)?
3. Having spent all this money, these privileged few are content to live on $250 odd a week because they have no wish to work. This is riches in their eyes, despite the tens of thousands they spent on their boat fare.
4. This is unfair on people in UN refugee camps so the best solution is to lock them up in third world conditions in refugee camps. Why don't we consider sending them to UN camps? Why does the UN condemn our offshore processing policies?

If people who arrive on boats discard their papers because the papers will prove them not to be refugees, how come the majority, after lengthy processing times are found to be genuine still?
If statistics show the majority of refugees are welfare dependent, don't you think the fact that being found a genuine refugee and allowed into the community but not having the right to work might account for some of this? Welfare in this country is a trap and genuine refugees receive a smaller portion than citizens.

I'm confused by your perspective Rowy.