Plambic & The Turbid Mash

[Asher]

This is mine and Chillamacgilla's first attempt at a pLambic (pseudo-lambic). It has been strongly influenced by Mr Jim Liddil's article 'A liddil lambic Lesson' (the article can be found here : http://hbd.org/brewery/library/LmbicJL0696.html )

Were planning on doing a Turbid mash using the Cantillon method described in Liddil's article (and several other places on the net).
See attached flowsheet showing how we plan to attack the complicated mash schedule scaled to Juncthouse volumes.

Edit: see beow for revised mash schedule

Plugging some Cantillon volumes and rest temps into ProMash I noticed the 45deg (protein?) rest liquor to grist ratio is under 1!. Has anyone mashed at such low ratio's? I've adjusted ours up slightly to 1.5:1. Having done this the ratio hasn't blown out from the later infusion steps as much as I'd expected and the highest it gets is still only 2.29:1...

Any comments?
Should we increase the initial infusion volume some more or is the thick mash important?

Cheers Asher

 

[kook]

I'd test it first with say 100g of kirin in a kitchen container. See whether there is actually enough liquid for absorbsion and go from there.

Do you have a copy of wild brews? Theres a guide to a small scale turbid mash in there which may help. Unfortunately my copy is currently packed in a box, and I'm not sure which one has beer books!

I'll be following this closely, as once I've got the brewery in action again I'm planning a pLambic along with another Flanders Red.

 

[chillamacgilla73]

'tis going to be a complicated mash and I'm looking forward to the challenge. Any help with the liquor volumes would be appreciated.

Does anyone know if stepping up Wyeast lambic blend would affect the compostion of the various yeasts and bacteria? EG: Could one bacteria/yeast dominate due to starter conditions(Temp/SG etc). We are going to use two smack packs to be safe but I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts.

 

[bakkerman]

Does anyone know if stepping up Wyeast lambic blend would affect the compostion of the various yeasts and bacteria? EG: Could one bacteria/yeast dominate due to starter conditions(Temp/SG etc). We are going to use two smack packs to be safe but I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts.

Chilla,

Different organisms are dominant at different times. I reckon you can make a starter with the Lambic blend and aerate it. The Saccharomyces yeasts will dominate while there's loads of sugars to chew up, the bugs dominate once primary fermentation has ceased.

I'm making a starter with my lambic blend!! :super:

 

[Goat]

bloody hell - I hope I'm up-wind of you guys when you do it ! (I don't feel like flame sterilising my brewery after that).

Good luck though - sounds like fun.

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Thanks bakkerman - as I suspected. I may get another lambic brewing in the next few months and will keep a little of the smack pack for that batch. Have you ever had a crack at a turbid mash?

Goat - My brew will be fermenting under the house as SWMBO said theres no way I can safely leave a polycarb bottle in the spare room without moving it and damaging the perricle for a year - Killjoy.... Hopefully the white ant inspector doesn't neck it while under the house! You should be right for infections till the summer easterlies kick in.

 

[bakkerman]

Hi Chilla,

I have been reading up about this, the Belgians call this method "Slijmmethode", which translates as slime method. Once you see how glutenous the first runs are you'll see why ;

I have attached a spreadsheet I picked up from a dutch forum. It details amounts to use.
A quick translation: Ketel = Kettle, inweken = soak, samenvoegen = join, tijd = time.

Have a look and see if it's usefull!View attachment recept_lambic_per_kg_storting.xls

 

[Asher]

Gday bakkerman

My quick calculations put the liquor to grist ratio of the dutch recipe at first runnings into the mash kettle at 1.7:1. Thats slightly thicker than I'd allowed (2.13:1).... definately slimey!!
maybe I should thicken up our recipe slightly hey Chilla?

Kook will pull my copy of Wildbrews of the shelf for a read this weekend

Cheers to you both

Asher

 

[bakkerman]

Hi Asher,

Just revisited the forum where I picked this up, the spreadsheet is actualy based on the method described in Wildbrews.

Good Luck!

 

[ausdb]

'tis going to be a complicated mash and I'm looking forward to the challenge. Any help with the liquor volumes would be appreciated.

Does anyone know if stepping up Wyeast lambic blend would affect the compostion of the various yeasts and bacteria? EG: Could one bacteria/yeast dominate due to starter conditions(Temp/SG etc). We are going to use two smack packs to be safe but I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts.

I have heard this about the old Roeslare blend so could possibly be the same with the lambic, considering they are both collections of bugs!

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

If using the Wyeast Lambic blend, there is a simplified turbid mash schedule recommended by Wyeast.
Its on page 142 of Wildbrews, but I suspect you are one step ahead on that one.

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Thanks all for your help.

Asher - I recks we thicken it up a little. I am jumping in the deep end of the Belgian brewing pool here and I canny wait.
:beer:

 

[Asher]

Tweaked the schedule a little....

View attachment pLambic_Turbid_Mash_AHB.doc

Main changes are: Thickened up the protein rest to something more traditional and reduced the infusion step water temperature to 90 deg (Closer to what the actual water temp will be by the time it hits the mash). Have dropped my efficiency down to 65 from 80 as advised in various texts.. Will sort that after this first attempt

All go for this Sat!

 

[kook]

Good stuff!

Let us know how it goes, I've ordered some lambic blend from Roy so as soon as that is in I want to give it a go!

 

[Guest Lurker]

Umm......you guys do realise you are going to make something that tastes like manky infected homebrew? Takes all sorts I guess.

 

[kook]

Umm......you guys do realise you are going to make something that tastes like manky infected homebrew? Takes all sorts I guess.

When I brew mine and eventually bottle it, I'll put a tea bag in one for you :lol:

 

[Asher]

Umm......you guys do realise you are going to make something that tastes like manky infected homebrew? Takes all sorts I guess.

If Guest Lurker has a craving for Brett he just turns the hose on the hounds.... :lol:

 

[Weizguy]

Umm......you guys do realise you are going to make something that tastes like manky infected homebrew? Takes all sorts I guess.

Ah, I believe that you have missed the point here.

...or are you just having a friendly stir? in which case, I reiterate the above. :lol:

Very inspiring, guys. It's a shame that the flood at my place claimed my lambic (sitting on the floor in my garage.

Two thumbs up! :super:

Seth

 

[bconnery]

Umm......you guys do realise you are going to make something that tastes like manky infected homebrew? Takes all sorts I guess.

He's right. Once bottled, pack them up and send them to me, I'll dispose of them safely

 

[chillamacgilla73]

A great brewday at the junctyard was completed on Saturday without a hitch. A well planned brewday where rest temps were hit(Without using the HERMS) and efficiency was much higher than expected...Asher has the details/notes/pics...

Highlights:
* Crushing whole wheat(1st time for me) - Ashers Schmidling malt mill chew thru it once a slower grain flow was achieved
* Dough in @1Lt/Kg...A stiff mash to say the least.
* Miso soup looking mash kettle...someone say protein?
* Brewing using a top shelf brewery - although it chews up some o-rings . Makes a pleasant change from my "stacked-outdoor-furniture-gravity- fed-brewery" (I now have a goal).
* Tasting some funked up Lambics from Big Al n Ashers cellars.
* My first experience with Aged hops - thanks Kook.
* Picking the BigAl n Ashers brains with brewing n kegging questions...
* Perusing pic's from Lou n Ashers recent trip to Belgium/Europe - those Belgian brewers are a filthy bunch! Next holiday to visit the in-laws in London is definatley via Belgium...the Fence sitter(Swiss) in-laws can wait.....
* Bonsai and Zen landscaping lessons during the 2hr boil.

17 litres are starting the long ferment in a glass carboy in the spare room - I might poss set up a gallery with monthly pics in the hope of getting timelapse perricle formation...
Cheers n thanks to Asher n Lou for a great day
:beer: