Pilsener Advice

[mahonya1]

I am going to attempt a Czech style Pilsener and have no experience of brewing Lagers. Pilseners are brewed using soft water, so plan on using distilled water. How much distilled water should I use? 100%, 50% distilled and tap water?? I am from Brisbane and I believe our tap water is pretty hard up here. Any advice would be appreciated on the water and also any other tips you might have for me.
Cheers.

 

[whitegoose]

I am going to attempt a Czech style Pilsener and have no experience of brewing Lagers. Pilseners are brewed using soft water, so plan on using distilled water. How much distilled water should I use? 100%, 50% distilled and tap water?? I am from Brisbane and I believe our tap water is pretty hard up here. Any advice would be appreciated on the water and also any other tips you might have for me.
Cheers.

Definitely not 100% it will be lacking in the calciums, carbonates etc that yeast needs... 50% might be a good start, but I'm not completely sure.

 

[Smashin]

Going off a few water reports from a google search brisbane water ranges from ~80-140 total hardness as CaCO3. say 110 average. Pilsner uses very soft water. Soft water is typically 0-60ppm. so a dilution of 50:50 with distilled water will get you at the upper end of the rage. so 2 parts distilled water to 1 part brisbane water should give you around 30-40ppm.

My water here in tas is very soft, around 20-30ppm and i don't have any fermetation issues.

Smashin :icon_cheers:

I am going to attempt a Czech style Pilsener and have no experience of brewing Lagers. Pilseners are brewed using soft water, so plan on using distilled water. How much distilled water should I use? 100%, 50% distilled and tap water?? I am from Brisbane and I believe our tap water is pretty hard up here. Any advice would be appreciated on the water and also any other tips you might have for me.
Cheers.

 

[Bribie G]

Maybe as a starter you could make a German Pils, very similar but it likes a bit of hardness, and some addded Sulphates even. Basically the same ingredients but more hoppy, Tettnanger, Spalt etc etc :icon_drool2:

 

[avaneyk]

Maybe as a starter you could make a German Pils, very similar but it likes a bit of hardness, and some addded Sulphates even. Basically the same ingredients but more hoppy, Tettnanger, Spalt etc etc :icon_drool2:

German pils are hoppier but less bitter than Boh pils. The harder water in german pils makes the bitterness taste harsher and thats why they hav less IBUs than their Czech cousins.

 

[mahonya1]

Thanks for all the advice guys....... one more question. What temperature do you pitch the yeast at? I am planning on using Wyeast 2278, which has a temperature range of 10 - 14 degrees. One of the books I have says to pitch the yeast when the wort has cooled to 23 degrees the chill to around 13 degrees once the yeast has started. Is this correct or will pitching at 23 degrees harm the yeast?

 

[remi]

best off to pitch at your desired fermentation temp to keep the yeasties happy...

remi

 

[Smashin]

23 degrees won't do any harm to the yeast, even lager yeast is cultured at around 20degrees for optimum attenuation and cell growth. There are differing schools of thought for lager pitching. Some pitch warm then cool others pitch low and bring the temp up. six of one i spose. Pitching warmer will certainly give the yeast a good head start. Depends on your fermenter temp control abilty i spose. I've generally pitched a few derees warmer, ~15-16. If you leave it warm too long you may develope more sulphur flavour which may need a longer lagering to remove.

Smashin

Thanks for all the advice guys....... one more question. What temperature do you pitch the yeast at? I am planning on using Wyeast 2278, which has a temperature range of 10 - 14 degrees. One of the books I have says to pitch the yeast when the wort has cooled to 23 degrees the chill to around 13 degrees once the yeast has started. Is this correct or will pitching at 23 degrees harm the yeast?

 

[haysie]

23 degrees won't do any harm to the yeast, even lager yeast is cultured at around 20degrees for optimum attenuation and cell growth. There are differing schools of thought for lager pitching. Some pitch warm then cool others pitch low and bring the temp up. six of one i spose. Pitching warmer will certainly give the yeast a good head start. Depends on your fermenter temp control abilty i spose. I've generally pitched a few derees warmer, ~15-16. If you leave it warm too long you may develope more sulphur flavour which may need a longer lagering to remove.
Smashin

Interested in that last sentence Smashin. Is sulphur a temp thing? or just part n parcel of lager brewing? I brew a few lagers and have always found the sulphur thing to be more pronounced with different strains of yeast rather than anything temperature derived, i.e using Urquell on a few beers atm and the sulphur is really noticable, the previous beers using Czech pils no where near as much. My temp control is spot on as is pitching vrs ferment temp.

@mahony, +1 for what remi posted, pitch if you can at ferment temp

 

[Zwickel]

if youre going to pitch the yeast warm, you should do a Diacetyl rest at the end of fermentation.

The classical way to brew a Pilsener is to keep the yeast cold at all stages of brewing, hence youd need a huge amount of yeast.
In case the amount of yeast is not sufficient, one could pitch at warmer temp, but then a Diacetyl rest is neccessary.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Tony]

i pitch at around 18 to 20 and have it down around 12 within 6 to 8 hours. When it is almost done i then let it warm up to 18 or 20 for a day or 2.

I do this cause im lazy

I really should pitch at 12 and be patient.

One thing with opitching at low temps....... make sure you have your yeast starter at the same tamp as the wort, so you dont shock the yeast.

Yeast should always be pitched into wort that is at the same temperature.

cheers

 

[hatchor]

I kind of follow Tony (in no way is this "THE WAY" but its just what I do and it is successful)
1 Pitch yeast 4 degrees warmer than your ferment temp
2 Bring down 2 degrees every 24 hours
3 Do a diacetyl rest at the end
4 Lager cold for a decent amount of time.

 

[Bribie G]

German pils are hoppier but less bitter than Boh pils. The harder water in german pils makes the bitterness taste harsher and thats why they hav less IBUs than their Czech cousins.

OOPs, was getting my Bo Pils and Helles mixed up

 

[Smashin]

your right some yeasts will produce more sulfur notes than others. Esters and sulfur notes increase with fermentation temperature. There are a few thing that can be done to reduce the presence of sulfur compounds at the front end.
-minimise trub in the fermenter.
-increased boil time and vigor to drive of DMS.
-lower o2 in wort prior to pitching yeast.
-ferment under greater pressure (i.e sit your blow off tube in deep water.

Smashin

Interested in that last sentence Smashin. Is sulphur a temp thing? or just part n parcel of lager brewing? I brew a few lagers and have always found the sulphur thing to be more pronounced with different strains of yeast rather than anything temperature derived, i.e using Urquell on a few beers atm and the sulphur is really noticable, the previous beers using Czech pils no where near as much. My temp control is spot on as is pitching vrs ferment temp.

@mahony, +1 for what remi posted, pitch if you can at ferment temp

 

[Smashin]

Intersting that diacetal is gettign mensioned a few times here. Like sulfur note diacetal is more pronounced in difference yeast strains, lager strains don't come to my mind. Yeast derived diacetal production is increased with high wort temps during the earliy stages of fermentation and yes a diacetal rest at the end of fermentation will allow the yeast to remetabolise the diacetal.

 

[Tony]

Oh... and dont add much late hops.

Use **** loads of Saaz to bitter with a 40 min addition........ and maybe a 0.5g/liter addition at 5 or 10 min

Lots lf late hops will only end in tears and lawn clippings

Same for a german pils, but use hallertau or tetnanger......... or Saphire if you can get it!