Pauline on Q&A

[MHB]

No its great, they form a party, some smart cookie will hack the database then we will have a list... a lovely little list, and not one of them will be...
Mark

Apologies to G&S
M

 

[wide eyed and legless]

After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a supposedly Islamist terrorist, and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

But she is so condescending.... it was just beautiful to watch.....

It really does put things into perspective

I bet the Senate is going to be balls of fun now with the governing party embarking on some navel gazing B)

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a supposedly Islamist terrorist, and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?

 

[Dave70]

After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a supposedly Islamist terrorist, and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?

I'd say Mohamad Bouhlel is in about the same league as Man Haron Monis. A sociopathic narcissist first, muslim second. And since the doctrine of radical islam is basically psychopathic, it made a good fit.
I can understand the rise of nationalism and the far right in Europe - and it is on the rise, France in particular has endured an appalling number of islamist inspired attacks, but at the same time I'm heartened that the best (worst) we can do is elect a cartoonish dunce like Hanson. She is clearly out of her intellectual depth in anything but a crowd or like minded fawners. She's not to be taken seriously, much less encouraged with cash.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel you have done better than the French government, as Dave points out the similarity of Man Haron Monis just a psychopath who IS would claim as their own, he had been treated for psychiatric and mental problems, and all the terrorist hype has further fanned the flames of the extreme right

 

[Mikedub]

[SIZE=12pt]Pauline’s ignorance makes her appear vulnerable when she is out played, which only serves to strengthen her supporter’s belief in her, as I imagine many too see any logical dismantling of her views as an example of the lefty PC basket weavers creating a smoke screen while laying out the red carpet for the baddies. For the sheer Schadenfreude value it would be good to see Leigh Sales interview Pauline, but she really shouldn’t be given that type of platform. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I guess with Mark Latham and Clive Palmer out of the political frame we needed a new arseclown for the media to fill their cycle [/SIZE]

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel

I never said there was a link

 

[technobabble66]

If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel you have done better than the French government, as Dave points out the similarity of Man Haron Monis just a psychopath who IS would claim as their own, he had been treated for psychiatric and mental problems, and all the terrorist hype has further fanned the flames of the extreme right

And that's the "beauty" of the latest iteration of terrorism - it's now evolved into a nebulous psychopathic cause that simply provides a focused outlet or excuse for enraged psychopaths to explode into violence. No link is required - just go out and do something in our name. If it wasn't such an abomination to humanity there's a certain brilliance in it's psychology. It taps straight into any level of discontent, without any form of organisation required.

With regards to the escalation of terrorist violence in Europe, could there be a link with the way they've gone about integrating migrants over the last 50-odd years?
That's in no way to condone any of the horrific violence that's occurred, but more to try to understand the situation to prevent it from happening here.
I get the impression that most of the european countries have allowed many migrants into their borders over the last few/several decades - Great, but have then essentially segregated them.
So their "multiculturalism" is not really multicultural at all.
Just pockets of ethnic groups, like the ghettos of the early 20th century. France and Germany seem to be good examples of this - when was the last time you saw someone who was not a "classic" caucasian Frenchman/woman on French TV as a speaker or presenter or representative (of ~ anything). It makes me think maybe those migrants have been somewhat isolated from a "regular" participation in the society around them. Hence they may feel like second class citizens &/or have no "stake" in the French society. I'm sure they can work, get social welfare, etc; but they don't feel like their the same as, say, a 10th generation Frenchman.
It's a scenario that's been a prime driving force for social unrest through the centuries - a section of the community that feels like they have no stake in the community or are treated as 2nd class citizens, so why should they care for or respect the tenets of that community.
It's ironic that, if this is a reasonably accurate assessment of contemporary France, that there's a certain similarity to the conditions that precipitated the French Revolution.

To this, i'd point out that Australia by & large, has a much much more successful multicultural policy/society - within 1/2 to 1 generation, most migrants have integrated fairly well into our communities. They have, or can acquire, an equal stake in society and generally seem to feel much more part of us, and identify as Australian. We still have significant issues of racism to deal with (there's always room for improvement!); but that's gradually being addressed, and i believe the majority of Australians wouldn't see migrants as being inferior, nor significantly discriminate against them. Our history has certainly not been perfect when it comes to migrants, but generally it's turned out well.
To that, i'd add that unfortunately PH represents the opposite of these sentiments - the ignorant xenophobia directly encourages and magnifies intolerance and segregation. What better way to create a feeling of isolation and segregation than to question someone's legitimacy within that society and make them fear for their safety? And to do it in such a blind and aggressive manner!
Pauline is a very scary woman. And blind ignorance is a very powerful tool. Many of the people she's targeting have recent memories of persecution. Among all the emotions i feel when i hear her, one of the main ones is empathy for the "Asians" and Muslims who must feel a shiver of fear whenever she speaks. And i honestly fear what she may do to our society - one of the few *successful* multicultural societies in the world, that's succeeded due to respect, tolerance, and understanding.
While i think there may be some benefit in addressing some of the many issues this debate will raise, i also believe it's extremely important for *all* non-xenophobic Australians to stand up and speak out against this ignorant intolerance.
Make it clear that the vast majority of us actually do uphold the ideals of fairness, equality, tolerance, decency and respect.



wow, that was a bit longer than i intended h34r:

 

[madpierre06]

Without going too much into previously expressed thoughts, the one thing that stands out here is that we do have young australian born or young arrivals who are of the muslim ideology who are being heavily influenced by their local leaders to undertake terror actions either here in Australia or in the earlier days of this situation go over to Iraq and Syria.

 

[Dave70]

And that's the "beauty" of the latest iteration of terrorism - it's now evolved into a nebulous psychopathic cause that simply provides a focused outlet or excuse for enraged psychopaths to explode into violence. No link is required - just go out and do something in our name. If it wasn't such an abomination to humanity there's a certain brilliance in it's psychology. It taps straight into any level of discontent, without any form of organisation required.

With regards to the escalation of terrorist violence in Europe, could there be a link with the way they've gone about integrating migrants over the last 50-odd years?
That's in no way to condone any of the horrific violence that's occurred, but more to try to understand the situation to prevent it from happening here.
I get the impression that most of the european countries have allowed many migrants into their borders over the last few/several decades - Great, but have then essentially segregated them.
So their "multiculturalism" is not really multicultural at all.
Just pockets of ethnic groups, like the ghettos of the early 20th century. France and Germany seem to be good examples of this - when was the last time you saw someone who was not a "classic" caucasian Frenchman/woman on French TV as a speaker or presenter or representative (of ~ anything). It makes me think maybe those migrants have been somewhat isolated from a "regular" participation in the society around them. Hence they may feel like second class citizens &/or have no "stake" in the French society. I'm sure they can work, get social welfare, etc; but they don't feel like their the same as, say, a 10th generation Frenchman.
It's a scenario that's been a prime driving force for social unrest through the centuries - a section of the community that feels like they have no stake in the community or are treated as 2nd class citizens, so why should they care for or respect the tenets of that community.
It's ironic that, if this is a reasonably accurate assessment of contemporary France, that there's a certain similarity to the conditions that precipitated the French Revolution.

To this, i'd point out that Australia by & large, has a much much more successful multicultural policy/society - within 1/2 to 1 generation, most migrants have integrated fairly well into our communities. They have, or can acquire, an equal stake in society and generally seem to feel much more part of us, and identify as Australian. We still have significant issues of racism to deal with (there's always room for improvement!); but that's gradually being addressed, and i believe the majority of Australians wouldn't see migrants as being inferior, nor significantly discriminate against them. Our history has certainly not been perfect when it comes to migrants, but generally it's turned out well.
To that, i'd add that unfortunately PH represents the opposite of these sentiments - the ignorant xenophobia directly encourages and magnifies intolerance and segregation. What better way to create a feeling of isolation and segregation than to question someone's legitimacy within that society and make them fear for their safety? And to do it in such a blind and aggressive manner!
Pauline is a very scary woman. And blind ignorance is a very powerful tool. Many of the people she's targeting have recent memories of persecution. Among all the emotions i feel when i hear her, one of the main ones is empathy for the "Asians" and Muslims who must feel a shiver of fear whenever she speaks. And i honestly fear what she may do to our society - one of the few *successful* multicultural societies in the world, that's succeeded due to respect, tolerance, and understanding.
While i think there may be some benefit in addressing some of the many issues this debate will raise, i also believe it's extremely important for *all* non-xenophobic Australians to stand up and speak out against this ignorant intolerance.
Make it clear that the vast majority of us actually do uphold the ideals of fairness, equality, tolerance, decency and respect.



wow, that was a bit longer than i intended h34r:

When you have a contingent of immigrants, some with strong influence among their community who belligerently reject the values and culture of their host country / new home, you're always going to run into strife, writ large.
Just ask Sweden.

I'm sure most Asians don't give an actual **** what she says. Some of the most Stralian people I know are Asians.. But lets not go confusing ideas (religion) and race, something Hanson and most of the media are a seemingly incapable of doing.
I'd feel far more a shiver as a muslim every time another murder is committed in its name. Much the same as the thoroughly decent catholic priest must feel every time one of his peers is shuffles into the dock to face child **** allegations I imagine.

 

[technobabble66]

^^
Agree that a few bad ones could greatly influence a group if there's nothing positive done or said to counter that influence. Merely locking them up etc won't cut it. Providing evidence that this is a good society would make it much harder for those malevolent belligerents to gain traction.

Disagree. Over half my friends would be asian in origin, almost all are Australian citizens. All of them care VERY much what she and others like her say. They all fear what she has and continues to invoke. They all appreciate she represents a tiny, ignorant, xenophobic percentage of the community, but fear what influence she may provide. I know a few of them experienced a real escalation in racist comments, etc when she first appeared in the media and received extensive coverage - and that was at a time when she was largely seen as a joke. She might be talking mainly about muslims now, but i think the other minority groups are watching very closely how Australia responds to her, and what level of xenophobia is generated.

And i'm not sure there's a benefit going too far down the path of debating which is more scary: xenophobes or the few in your "group" that commit atrocities. They're both the same level of crazy, and both provide fuel for the other, and both create fear and distrust in the wider community. Everyone loses out from either of the crazies gaining traction.
(though i appreciate it's worth noting it's not all one side, if that's all your intention was )

 

[Liam_snorkel]

should be interesting when her doco comes out - basically a whinge piece about Abbott & Howard getting her locked up for electoral fraud. A good proportion of her primary vote came from conservative Abbott supporters who were disaffected by the change of leadership. Will they swing back to LNP or become rusted-on ON voters once it's clear to them that Abbott is a vindictive ****? (RE also his pursuit & destruction of Slipper - don't think for a second that Ashby was the brains behind it).

 

[Mikedub]

I thought this was her doco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tZRZSGxcE

 

[arctic78]

I may be totally wrong here but I have to say from what I have seen and experienced , I stress my experience , I have found that there are many different cultures in Australia that have assimilate well to our ways. Not saying it has been easy or without some racism along the way but they have assimilated and managed to keep there identity and customs along the way but also embraced our culture and change it for the better .
Australians along the way have learned to love and respect theses people and admire what they have to offer to our culture.
In a perfect world this would happen without all the difficulties , racism etc. , but that for now unfortunately is not what happens.
I myself look at what all the immigrants , Italian , Greek , checs etc. , after WW2 contributed to Australia and they by no means had it easy in terms of racism but now I believe they are seen as a important part of our society.
I believe Our true owners of this country still have it much harder than anyone here , So called Australian or otherwise.

PH is just WRONG but everyone is entitled to an opinion and obviously there are a lot more like here.
I just wish this was not the case but to stop them from having a voice is wrong also. We can only hope to educate them and let them see for themselves that what they believe for now is not helpful to our society or the whole terrorism problem that is happening.

Like I said I may be totally wrong in my observation but it is my observation and in Australia we are all entitled to have an opinion.

 

[Dave70]

^^
Agree that a few bad ones could greatly influence a group if there's nothing positive done or said to counter that influence. Merely locking them up etc won't cut it. Providing evidence that this is a good society would make it much harder for those malevolent belligerents to gain traction.

Disagree. Over half my friends would be asian in origin, almost all are Australian citizens. All of them care VERY much what she and others like her say. They all fear what she has and continues to invoke. They all appreciate she represents a tiny, ignorant, xenophobic percentage of the community, but fear what influence she may provide. I know a few of them experienced a real escalation in racist comments, etc when she first appeared in the media and received extensive coverage - and that was at a time when she was largely seen as a joke. She might be talking mainly about muslims now, but i think the other minority groups are watching very closely how Australia responds to her, and what level of xenophobia is generated.

And i'm not sure there's a benefit going too far down the path of debating which is more scary: xenophobes or the few in your "group" that commit atrocities. They're both the same level of crazy, and both provide fuel for the other, and both create fear and distrust in the wider community. Everyone loses out from either of the crazies gaining traction.
(though i appreciate it's worth noting it's not all one side, if that's all your intention was )

Xenophobes and religious fanatics basically two sides of the same ignorant, scary coin anyway.

 

[Dave70]

I may be totally wrong here but I have to say from what I have seen and experienced , I stress my experience , I have found that there are many different cultures in Australia that have assimilate well to our ways. Not saying it has been easy or without some racism along the way but they have assimilated and managed to keep there identity and customs along the way but also embraced our culture and change it for the better .
Australians along the way have learned to love and respect theses people and admire what they have to offer to our culture.
In a perfect world this would happen without all the difficulties , racism etc. , but that for now unfortunately is not what happens.
I myself look at what all the immigrants , Italian , Greek , checs etc. , after WW2 contributed to Australia and they by no means had it easy in terms of racism but now I believe they are seen as a important part of our society.
I believe Our true owners of this country still have it much harder than anyone here , So called Australian or otherwise.

PH is just WRONG but everyone is entitled to an opinion and obviously there are a lot more like here.
I just wish this was not the case but to stop them from having a voice is wrong also. We can only hope to educate them and let them see for themselves that what they believe for now is not helpful to our society or the whole terrorism problem that is happening.

Like I said I may be totally wrong in my observation but it is my observation and in Australia we are all entitled to have an opinion.

I wish the world was like Food Safari..

 

[Liam_snorkel]

and like Maeve, I've never met an ethnic dish that didn't make me go 'mmmmmmmmmmm'

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I wish the world was like Food Safari..

Mmmmmm...Meave.... :icon_drool2:

 

[madpierre06]

and like Maeve, I've never met an ethnic dish that didn't make me go 'mmmmmmmmmmm'

Juanita was her name...Colombian girl.