Noob Mead Makers Wanted - Apply Within

[pdilley]

Any idea why? I wouldn't have thought that surface area would have much impact on rehydrating yeast. Is he looking for extra oxygen uptake? I would have thought that shaking or using a stir plate would do more for that than a large surface area.

The reason is 100% recapture of the yeasts left alive in the mix of dry dead/living yeasts. He would not like to hear about stirring of any sort involved. Dry yeast have shrivelled and stressed cellular walls that no longer function properly at filtering. They will take in toxins as readily as food and kill themselves until they are in a fully rehydrated state and additionally there membranes have healed and strengthened. That means absolutely no nutrients during rehydration. It's GoFerm in non-distilled water and absolutely nothing else. No stirring means you need large surface area to get h2o contact with no stiring. Temp must be 104F at dry pitch and 20 minutes before pitching to must with up to 30 minutes allowed before the sub optimum happens - yeasties run out of stored energy and switch state. Just pitching into a 25C must from that temp will kill off 40% of the survivors of rehydration!

The goal is not to pitch few yeast or yeast in the incorrect metabolic states that would lead to off flavoura an a non clean ferment. Throws the common ideas about pitching dry yeasts on it's head.

The other misnomer around yeasts is the cambdrn tablets kill yeasts and stop fermentation. Tho is incorrect, yeast have a generic switch to go from metabolic state to another in their life cycle. This only glues the switch into the off state for switching to fermentation but won't affect the ones already getting down and funky into reproduction so you won't get 100% effect I you do it at the wrong point in the fermentation cycle.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Airgead]

The reason is 100% recapture of the yeasts left alive in the mix of dry dead/living yeasts. He would not like to hear about stirring of any sort involved. Dry yeast have shrivelled and stressed cellular walls that no longer function properly at filtering. They will take in toxins as readily as food and kill themselves until they are in a fully rehydrated state and additionally there membranes have healed and strengthened. That means absolutely no nutrients during rehydration. It's GoFerm in non-distilled water and absolutely nothing else. No stirring means you need large surface area to get h2o contact with no stiring. Temp must be 104F at dry pitch and 20 minutes before pitching to must with up to 30 minutes allowed before the sub optimum happens - yeasties run out of stored energy and switch state. Just pitching into a 25C must from that temp will kill off 40% of the survivors of rehydration!

Ahh gotcha.

I do it the other way - I make up a starter a few days beforehand and grow the yeast up (usually from slants but sometimes from dry). All I need is one surviving cell from rehydration and I can make enough healthy yeast to ferement. Working from slants I usually pitch into 5m then step up to 25 after 24 hours then up to 125ml then to 1l for a 20l batch. Takes me 4 days but I find it gives me very reliable fermentations (for both mead and beer). From dry I'll pitch a teaspoon or so into 1l of must at 1.040 to get things started then pitch that into 20l after a day or two. For my 5l batches I'll use a 125ml starter.

And I was the one who said I like to keep things simple...

Cheers
Dave

 

[davewaldo]

And I was the one who said I like to keep things simple...

:lol:

 

[Airgead]

:lol:

In my defence it does mean that I haven't had to buy yeast in about 5 years.

Except for one pack of wyeast cider last year but thats in the yeast farm now so I don't need to buy that one ever again...

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

In my defence it does mean that I haven't had to buy yeast in about 5 years.

Except for one pack of wyeast cider last year but thats in the yeast farm now so I don't need to buy that one ever again...

With mead you spend up to 30 minutes in the kitchen but can spend tons of attention in the yeast starter, 4 stage nutrient addition with 82% up to 1/3 sugar break and lots of beating the c**p out of the must and lots of fermentation monitoring if you wish during the fermentation stages-- if you so desire -- contrasting to making beer where you can spend all day working on the wort but then pitch the yeasb and forget it till done.

I have to get up to speed on and start yeast farming because to date I apwas build up a starter and pitch that as my style -- just that I normally discard the trub when done doing the vigorous clean immediately after racking phase. If I farmed I could spend the savings on acquiring more strains of yeast to the collection.

 

[pdilley]

If anyone is shopping around, the best price I have found is on ebay Australia.

Original prices quoted in British Pounds, but works out to be

Bees Honey Refractometer 58-90% Brix
$26.33 for old style with screwdriver calibration adjustor
$29.08 for new style with finger knurl knob to adjust calibration

Wine Alcohol Grape Refractometer 0-25%VOL 0-40% Brix
$26.97 for old style with screwdriver calibration adjustor
$29.07 for new style with finger knurl knob to adjust calibration

Brix Refractometer 0-32% Fruit Juice Wine Sugar
$26.75 for old style with screwdriver calibration adjustor
$28.86 for new style with finger knurl knob to adjust calibration

I can not vouch for the seller as it is eBay. But I can say I will most likely be ordering one or two from them. The link to the seller so you can see all the items in the store is below:
EasyLifeProduct, a Seller from HK selling Refractometers

You can search all of eBay and see the same items sold over and over at various prices.
You can search Amazon and see the same items sold for $115 Australian (80 USDollars) to $217 Australian (150 USDollars)

Its all up to you what you want to pay, its the same bloody unit Now imagine the price difference on other items you buy locally compared to buying close to the source over in China direct

P.S. PH Meters start from $20 and top out about $40 for small pen type hand held digital units.

 

[pdilley]

back to JAO I have to say the fermentation smell is heavenly the way the aromas all meld together -- I have to force my head out of the closet I ferment in so I can shut the door but I don't want to! It is very yummy!

Slightly OT I'm bitten by the DIY bug so Im seriously considerng building my own stir plate from parts around the house and picking up an erleynmeyer flask or two and stirbar and do some serious yeast farming, cataloging and freezing up a nice library.

 

[Ronin]

Just a question, does anyone know where I can get my hands on some mead in melbourne? Was at Purvis on the weekend and they don't stock it, doesn't move fast enough.

I've had some ages ago, but I'd like to try some again, good or bad.

And can the moderators move this thread to the "non-beer brewing" forum? It'd make it a bit easier to find.

Thanks,

James

 

[KingPython]

Dan Murphys will have Maxwell but apparently it's trash. For the $12 it costs you can make your own. Following some basic advice but no recipe. I made mine about 5 litres, 1kg of Aldi honey, bakers yeast, and some old hops. Feel halfway between being a prison brewer and a Viking.

 

[pdilley]

Just a question, does anyone know where I can get my hands on some mead in melbourne? Was at Purvis on the weekend and they don't stock it, doesn't move fast enough.

Sickly sweet Spiced Maxwells can be had at Queen Victoria Market, there's a wine section in the food section on the walk in. They also have non-spiced and they have a small bottle of Mead Liquor or Mead Brandy or whatever you want to call it.

In ACT you get it in the bottle shops.

I only get it for SWMBO a few times a year. Making my own so I don't have to buy it again. Once my JAO is done, and my TCMM book arrives I plan to get 64 liters or more of Mead on the go in the first large batch. Following the advice of make your mead plain in the primary then blend it into fruits, spices, or chocolate (yes there is chocolate mead!) or whatever in the secondary/during aging. JAO is for kicks and to bring memories back of the first brew I ever did, a similar Mead w/ Bakers Yeast (Ale Yeast).

I want to do a small batch as well bone dry with a champagne yeast and then carbonate in the glass to serve champagne style in flutes with sliced fresh strawberry.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Just a question, does anyone know where I can get my hands on some mead in melbourne? Was at Purvis on the weekend and they don't stock it, doesn't move fast enough.

And can the moderators move this thread to the "non-beer brewing" forum? It'd make it a bit easier to find.

Thanks,

James

Done.

Andrew

 

[chappo1970]

Chappo, I will try to remember to bring a bottle to the March meeting for you to try, and another in a few meetings after that.

Chad,
Thanks for bringing a bottle along last night at the BABBS meeting I really enjoyed it. :beerbang: Actually to be honest I'm hooked. There is a lot complex flavours in mead and going by Chad's example well worth the effort. I really am going to have to get some reading material shortly. The problem is now I really really need to get into it and hopefully repay the favour in 2years time hehe!

 

[pdilley]

Welcome on board Chappo,

Meads are fun, great aromas, good taste and a bit more versatile than with grapes as wine categories are pretty much defined and there is not a whole lot a home brewer can add in that space. There is no roadmap to methods or styles such as with beer either. You can be sickly sweet to bone dry. Still to sparkling. Basic to complex in ingredients and flavours. Just about anything you can think of can be an ingredient and quite a few you've never thought of!

Mead needs respect like wines unless you wish to find yourself really regretting over indulgence and wondering what you got up to the night before

I have some plans for champagne mead, raspberry melomel (fruits in the secondary), trying to find a Polish recipe that's complex and with vanilla bean, the ancient orange cinnamon and clove JAOs should be aged by then. The Polish are supposed to have a very long uninterrupted history of mead always being available in the shops unlike the rest of the Western countries where only now its starting to make a small comeback.

Once I get time to try apple juice from aldi I want to post the apfelwein recipe here as the yanks have made over 10,000+ gallons of it on their brewing forum and it's simpler or as simple as a basic mead recipe to make and see how many liters we can collectively brew over here if it takes off among members.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

PS Meads can take as long as 6-12 months fermentation if you follow traditional methods. If you follow Kens method I. The Compleat Meadmaker book then you can get fermentation down to 5-7 days and bulk aging down to 2-3 months although you'll be controversial I only have reports and interviews to go on until my book arrives to see the exact published method put down in writing -- see the yeast 1/3 sugar break post for the basic ideas and how different it really is for traditionalist to make people wonder it is legit as an actual method. Once I get my scales, refractometer and gear from overseas in the next 7-12 days (hopefully sooner depending on the Post) I'll do a 5-7 day fermentation batch using native Australian honeys.

 

[Chad]

Thanks for bringing a bottle along last night at the BABBS meeting I really enjoyed it. :beerbang:

No problem. As I mentioned, it was a while since I tasted that batch and it wasn't that crash hot last time I did. But it was good to see it improving greatly after a few more months, and to get some other reviews.

What's really cool is that my partner has sourced an unlimited supply of free honey for me through someone at her work, so I have plenty more batches lined up ready to do.

 

[pdilley]

57 liter primary for turbo brews. Marked for few inches gap from top of lip of my 34 and 25 liter demijohns for long term secondary with no O2 issues. Actuals will be below the line.

Tip from BribieG had me find this at Bunnings, with wheels, $12.


Marked up with rough liquid line levels.


Still need scales and refractometer and then I'll be putting 34 Liters of liquid gold goodness through this and fill up both 34 liters with mead that will be done in 2-3 months.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

P.S. Apple Juice is for an Apfelwein recipe experiment, though I'm just using it to back-sweeten the Black Rock cider for SWMBO which is bottled and aging. Bottles already used yesterday for Roach Smasher Ale which is carbing up as we speak.

 

[chappo1970]

Wow never mind storage container BUT that's one big funnel you have there BP! h34r: (Never thought I would say that to another Brewer?)

Loving SWMBO picked up 5kg's each of Orange Blossum and Napunya for me this morning from the markets. $5/kg BTW. I'm thinking I really need to get at least 2 glass demijons to start with. Simple question: Suggested size 34 or 54lt and narrow 40mm or wide mouth 120mm? Not fussed on cost just the right gear to do the job.

 

[Chad]

I'm currently putting down an 11L sack mead, which will be fortified later on, and then split into two batches and one will have some light french oak added. Starting gravity is 1.130.
I've been having some attenuation issues with the past few batches, but after listening to the Jamil Show episode on mead, I have a few tricks to try out. We'll see how it goes.

 

[pdilley]

The really wide mouth demijohns are really for making your own olives in brine. My 34's are purely for use as bulk aging secondaries. If you are going to follow The Compleat Meadmaker book then you want a plastic bucket or use a plastic beer barrel style fermenter if you can't come to terms with a storage container as your primary. The reason is you will get heavy foaming in the first few days and a narrow top means am explosive volcano waiting to happen. That's why I don't have an issue with the storage either. No needs to worry about airlocks with this method. The must will only be in the primary for 5-7 days on the norm or 2 weeks tops on the slow end before racking into glass for a 2-3 month aging in bulk before bottling. I'll be working with the primary already at table level so no lifting of the primary is involved and a simple gravity siphon to the 34's is all that's required.

Low ABV ale/bakers yeast meads like JAO don't foam anything much but a little thin layer.

Already getting some recipes for Lavender Mead ready. Most of my plans so far are for 7-14 days pure mead in the primary with all the fruits, spices, etc taking place in the secondary.

The JAMIL Show on mead is great. That's kens methods and that 1/3rd sugar break that's a bit contraversial for some. Brew Bubbas Show had a carry on interview related to mead. Check it out!

I'm also working with hightest, the infamous mead making engineer mentioned on the show during the interview, I've posted some of his instructions and pointers in the 1/3rd Sugar Break post that's in this forum.

 

[Airgead]

57 liter primary for turbo brews. Marked for few inches gap from top of lip of my 34 and 25 liter demijohns for long term secondary with no O2 issues. Actuals will be below the line.

Tip from BribieG had me find this at Bunnings, with wheels, $12.
View attachment 25779

Marked up with rough liquid line levels.
View attachment 25781

Still need scales and refractometer and then I'll be putting 34 Liters of liquid gold goodness through this and fill up both 34 liters with mead that will be done in 2-3 months.

Are you sure them things are food grade? have a few of them for storing grain but I'm not sure I'd ferment in one. I don't think they are HDPE.

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

Are you sure them things are food grade? have a few of them for storing grain but I'm not sure I'd ferment in one. I don't think they are HDPE.

Cheers
Dave

Good catch, no 2 symbol so its unknown for now. Will have to fire off a email to the reseller. They can be lined with food grade plastic, but it is going to be less hassle to find a 2 stamped container. If seeking liners then water tank liners are available in polyethelene.

Neither is any of the plastic items from the LHBS for that matter, the wort stirrer spoon is marked Made in Australia, but that is it. Only the 30L fermenter is HDPE "2" symbol stamped.