No rinse sanitizer

[SnailAle]

Sorry for the barrage of questions guys, I'm trying to find this information without starting new threads but some of it is hard to find the answer I'm looking for.

I diluted and used the no rinse sanitizer to clean my bottles for the first batch and afterwards actually read the warnings on the bottle.
It was saying to avoid akin contact and if so to wash for 20 minutes. Now I was cleaning my bottles without gloves or anything but I'm really wondering if it's serious or they're taking the piss.

It's a non rinse sanitizer, i.e. I'm not rinsing it out of a bottle I'll be ingesting liquid from so isn't that a bit more than skin contact?

The only thing I can think of is that they mean at undiluted concentrations to cover themselves if someone decided it's a good idea to use it as an eye drop or to bathe in it.

Or is it genuinely something that we shouldn't be touching with our skin? And from there what's that mean for the no rinse side of things?

Cheers,

 

[manticle]

What sanitiser?

I use starsan, no problem on skin diluted. Undiluted stings - it's acidic. Won't die or melt.

 

[Bonenose]

It's a non rinse sanitizer, i.e. I'm not rinsing it out of a bottle I'll be ingesting liquid from so isn't that a bit more than skin contact?

I assume you are draining your bottles so that you are not actually drinking any

 

[SnailAle]

Keg king brand.

Yeah I'm draining them but there's still going to be residue after it dries is my point.

 

[Bonenose]

I am a little cautious of some of the cleaners I've used but have never worried about phosphoric based sanitisers like starsan. Don't fear the foam as they say.

 

[MHB]

I'm not concerned about the Phosphoric Acid part of Star San or the like, its the detergent component that I have questions about.
The foaming agent in Star San is Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid, it has its used but not to my mind in beer.
It might just be the way you have phrased it, but Acid Sanitiser isn't a cleaner, you will need to use a "Cleaner" personally, I use Sodium Percarbonate or BBW a proprietary cleaner from my local home brew shop.
Over time you will get a waxy build up of hop resins on the glass, these products can be very bad for head, thick deposits can also be a good place for bacteria to hide. Gets to the stage where it starts to peel off like old varnish, very unsightly floating around in beer.

My cleaning regime for bottles is
Clean with Sodium Percarbonate/BBW and a good brush
Rinse well
Spray with peroxide based sanitiser (peroxide breaks down into Oxygen and Water)
Invert and allow to drain
Fill.

Mark

 

[pcqypcqy]

I haven't been particularly careful with diluted star san at any point, it gets all over my hands whenever I use it. Doesn't seem to be an issue. In its concenrated form it's a pretty potent acid by the looks: https://www.jstrack.org/brewing/msds/starsan.pdf

I think the idea with a lot of the no-rinse stuff is that it breaks down over time, so it's active when you use it and potentially harmful to yourself, but by the time you drink your beer it has broken down into more harmless components. Hydrogen Peroxide for example.

Not sure if this is how starsan works though as it seems to be very shelf stable, even when diluted.

One of the active ingredients is covered here, which discusses how this component breaks down over time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_dodecylbenzenesulfonate

The rest seems to be phosphoric acid, which can probably just react out.

 

[Bribie G]

Phosphoric acid is one of the flavouring ingredients in Coca-Cola. Back in the days of bronze coins it was a common party trick to dip a coin into a glass of coke and it would come out bright as new.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

....its the detergent component that I have questions about.
The foaming agent in Star San is Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid, it has its used but not to my mind in beer.

Mark

mmmm Benzene derived products .. yummy.

I recall "mouth siphoning" petrol when I was a wee lad into motorcycles ... . Nothing, hiccup, wrong .. hiccup, .. with me .. hiccup, cough.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I've now opted for the pure phosphoric acid. Its 96% pure. As far as I know the 4% is just water. No worries about the other additives. You can use it as sanitizer and its a larger dilution rate so it goes further. You can use it as an additive for pH correction. Its a win, win, win thing.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Phosphoric acid (AKA orthophosphoric acid or H3PO4PE388) is a mineral inorganic acid.
The pure phosphoric acid can be used as a non-foaming non-rinse sanitiser when diluted with water to a concentration of 1ml/2Litres.
Phosphoric acid is excellent at passifying stainless.
Phosphoric acid is also great for adjusting PH of sparge water.
Phosphoric acid can be completely metabolised by yeast and will act as a yeast nutrient if it ends up in your fermenter.

 

[pnorkle]

Phosphoric acid can be completely metabolised by yeast and will act as a yeast nutrient if it ends up in your fermenter.

This is good news.

 

[Bribie G]

I use pure phos, I went into a joint buy with some members over a year ago - I figured it would be a yeast nutrient as a wee bit ends up in my cubes, kegs and fermenters, so I was glad to get that info.
I use it in an old Starsan dosage bottle and refill when necessary. At this rate I've got enough phos to keep me going till I'm 80.

My other goto is pure Sodium Percarbonate. Even a perfectly clean looking lab bottle, for example, can react alarmingly to perc as it zaps the old yeast cells etc that are there, but not visible. So just about everything gets da perc then da phos.

 

[zipfly]

How much phos do you use to sanitize? How many ml per litre of water?

 

[unwrittenlaw]

I use 1.5ml/L starsan/distilled water in a spray bottle

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Phosphoric acid (AKA orthophosphoric acid or H3PO4PE388) is a mineral inorganic acid.
The pure phosphoric acid can be used as a non-foaming non-rinse sanitiser when diluted with water to a concentration of 1ml/2Litres.
Phosphoric acid is excellent at passifying stainless.
Phosphoric acid is also great for adjusting PH of sparge water.
Phosphoric acid can be completely metabolised by yeast and will act as a yeast nutrient if it ends up in your fermenter.
Phosphoric acid can remove blood
Phosphoric acid will improve your sex life
Phosphoric acid could be used as flux
Phosphoric acid is a rust converter
Phosphoric acid help with world peace
Phosphoric acid is awesome
Phosphoric acid is used as an etching solution
Phosphoric acid is a solution for anodizing.
Phosphoric acid is an external standard for phosphorus-31 nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR).
Phosphoric acid is a buffer agent in biology and chemistry. For example, a buffer for high-performance liquid chromatography.
Phosphoric acid is a chemical oxidizing agent for activated carbon production, as used in the Wentworth process.[18]
Phosphoric acid is the electrolyte in phosphoric-acid fuel cells.With distilled water (2–3 drops per gallon) as an electrolyte in oxyhydrogen generators.
Phosphoric acid is a catalyst in the hydration of alkenes to produce alcohols, predominantly ethanol.
Phosphoric acid is an electrolyte in copper electropolishing for burr removal and circuit-board planarization.
Phosphoric acid is a flux by metal workers and hobbyists (such as model railroaders) as an aid to soldering.
Phosphoric acid is a cleaner by construction trades to remove mineral deposits, cementitious smears, and hard-water stains.
Phosphoric acid is a chelant in some household cleaners aimed at similar cleaning tasks.
Phosphoric acid is used n hydroponics pH solutions to lower the pH of nutrient solutions. While other types of acids can be used, phosphorus is a nutrient used by plants, especially during flowering, making phosphoric acid particularly desirable.
Phosphoric acid is a pH adjuster in cosmetics and skin-care products.[21]
Phosphoric acid is a dispersing agent in detergents and leather treatment.
Phosphoric acid is an additive to stabilize acidic aqueous solutions within a wanted and specified pH range.
Phosphoric acid is a sanitizing agent in the dairy, food, and brewing industries.[22]
Phosphoric acid is a main reactive agent in electrochemical weld cleaning.