No Chill only 40 min boil required?

[gordo_t]

If i'm using the BIAB/No Chill method, and am adjusting my hop schedule by about 20 minutes anyway. (i.e. bittering hops added at 40mins etc).

So long as I adjust my volumes to compensate for less boil off, should I not just be boiling for only the 40 minutes, and save myself some time and gas? Is anyone else doing this?

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Get some best pilsner malt and give it a crack and report back h34r:

 

[bum]

You really need an hour boil to kill nasties that are often picked up from the grain. Grain is generally teeming with bad bacteria (bacteria may not always be the most correct term but you get the idea). Give her the full 60.

A well regarded brewer here (Thirsty Boy, if you're keen to go searching for it) once instructed me to put a small amount of hops in from early on anyway - hop material improves boil performance (in some long-forgotten manner).

 

[Draughton]

As bob said, give it a go but be on the lookout for DMS
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

There is a reason people boil for 60 mins

 

[QldKev]

As bob said, give it a go but be on the lookout for DMS
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

There is a reason people boil for 60 mins

There is a reason people boil for a minimum Of 60 mins

ahh that's better

 

[Bribie G]

Adjust the hops not the boil.

 

[Draughton]

When would you decide to boil for longer than 60 mins?

 

[goomboogo]

Pretty much every time I brew.

 

[AndrewQLD]

True, there are nasties on the grain however they are no longer an issue within minutes of the boil starting.

You need to do a boil for a minimum of 60 minutes + to drive off DMS, aid in protein break (hot break) and chill haze reduction, stabilizes proteins, creates a larger boil off volume giving you a larger sparge volume for increased efficiencies dependent on your system.

 

[pimpsqueak]

When would you decide to boil for longer than 60 mins?

When I want to increase gravity or kettle caramelization.

 

[roverfj1200]

Got a few BIAB brews done and a 90 min mash and boil is looking the go.

Cheers

 

[GuyQLD]

When would you decide to boil for longer than 60 mins?

From : http://bavarianbrewerytech.com/news/boilhops.htm

WHY ROLLING BOIL?
Rapid boiling drives out oxygen, which can become very harmful in the process: it can change the color to darker than desired, and it can help serious infections to develop in the beer. Even more important, however, is the break down of proteins. This can be achieved only if boiling is vigorous: it helps create surface tension of the so called “albumin fraction” of the protein. These particles then will concentrate on the wort-air-steam bubbles and because of the high concentration, they will aggregate into larger and larger masses. More scientifically, the micellae, denatured in the boiling process, are held in suspension only by their electric charges. When in turn, the force of affinity between the micellae exceeds the force of electrostatic repulsion, as a result of high concentration on the surface of the bubbles, the albumin will aggregate and precipitate. This process cannot be achieved without a rolling boil.

STAGES AND LENGTH OF BOILING
From practical point of view, boiling should not take less than 90 minutes. The specific length depends on the hop schedule. The minimum time is explained by the following. Sterilization requires about 5 minutes. An additional 10 minutes (total of 15 minutes) will kill the enzymes. Another 15 minutes are needed to eliminate tannin originating from malt husks. This first half hour, in case of infusion mash, is to decompose and precipitate some of the proteins. This should be accomplished before hops are added, because otherwise the sticky hop resins will combine with the coarse protein flocks and precipitate out of solution. When decoction mashing is used, excessive complex proteins are usually not a problem. After that, calculate the total time needed to evaporate the desired amount of wort. Subtract the above 30 minutes. The remaining time should include the hops schedule so that the hops should not be boiled longer than one hour. Except for high gravity beers, the total boiling time should not last longer than 2 hours. Boiling the hops longer than one hour will start generating sharp, undesirable and unpleasant flavors. During a long boil a greater percentage of the hops’ bittering and preservative qualities are carried into the finished beer.
Thus, the stages of boiling are characterized by the functions: sterilization, driving out oxygen, killing enzymes, protein break-down, evaporation of water and hops processing.


Just one thing I found on the intawebz. I have to say since I've done the whole 30mins before hopping I have had much better protein formation and subsequent whirlpooling. Anecdotal I'll grant however.

 

[manticle]

Google the function of wort boiling and download the ibd pdf by Rourke that appears in the hits. A lot of stuff mentioned in posts by Andrew QLD and others in posts here.
Add less hops if your nc brews are too bitter.

 

[Beerbuoy]

Google the function of wort boiling and download the ibd pdf by Rourke that appears in the hits. A lot of stuff mentioned in posts by Andrew QLD and others in posts here.
Add less hops latter if your nc brews are too bitter.

Fixed it for ya. Pfft!! less hops, have you been sold out to lion nathan?

 

[GalBrew]

If i'm using the BIAB/No Chill method, and am adjusting my hop schedule by about 20 minutes anyway. (i.e. bittering hops added at 40mins etc).

So long as I adjust my volumes to compensate for less boil off, should I not just be boiling for only the 40 minutes, and save myself some time and gas? Is anyone else doing this?

No.

 

[MartinOC]

Like a lot of things in brewing, the best way to answer this is to say "It depends".

You haven't told us anything about your intended boil start gravity & the intended final gravity. Nor whether you're using whole/pelletised hops & if you're boiling in a hop bag or not. Under ideal conditions, a maximum of 70% of the available alpha acids put into the wort will isomerise after 2 hours of boiling. In the real world, that's going to reduce after cooling. How bitter have you calculated your final beer to be? Bear in mind that I'm ONLY talking about utilisation here. Others have posted other valid reasons for a longer boil above.

Factors that affect this can be boil time, boil gravity (above 1050, utilisation falls-off), hopping rate, boil temperature (are you high above sea level?), vigorous boils.

The way I'd suggest is to start your brew with the end in mind - do you REALLY want to spend all that time, effort & money on ingredients & end-up with an inferior, under-hopped, cloudy, uncoagulated protein-laden end-product, just for the sake of saving a few cents'-worth of gas??

 

[Dazza88]

"the best way to answer this is to say "It depends""

Are you my german-accented physiological psychology lecturer from UQ circa 2000? Lol.

Every answer to a question started with this sentence. Memories. . . .

(sound advice, do a full boil if not willing to compromise brew, i often boiled for 60m and didn't add hop until the last 10 minutes, and then a lot!)

 

[gordo_t]

All valid points, I thinks it worthy of some trials. If in the end if I can't taste a difference (at this stage in brewing at least) then all is well and I know no better and save some gas. I may do a tried and true recipe, one batch boiling for 40 and one 60 and see if i notice a difference. If i can't then i'll find someone that should know, and feed them a blind taste test just for s**ts and giggles.

 

[GuyQLD]

Except chances are it won't be taste that's affected initially. It will be long term stability and clarity. Up to you if those are worth considering.

 

[manticle]

All valid points, I thinks it worthy of some trials. If in the end if I can't taste a difference (at this stage in brewing at least) then all is well and I know no better and save some gas. I may do a tried and true recipe, one batch boiling for 40 and one 60 and see if i notice a difference. If i can't then i'll find someone that should know, and feed them a blind taste test just for s**ts and giggles.

You will get a higher volume, lower gravity, paler coloured wort with 40 minutes unless you make adjustments to grist and liquor. Not necessarily negatives - just needs to be taken into account. I don't really see the point (although I do 90 minute minimum boils) but it's not my beer.

Common brewing wisdom suggests you should boil for 15-30 minutes before the first hop addition to get the best utilisation (break material can affect isomerisation/utilisation)