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No Chill bitterness effects?

Discussion in 'All Grain Brewing' started by Edd, 10/12/17.

 

  1. Edd

    Well-Known Member

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    Posted 10/12/17
    I have just bottled my first NC batch and, wow, she’s bitter! Not in a sour or off tasting way (bar the mild plastic taste due, I think, to a brand new cube being used), the aroma is delicious (Galaxy finishing hops) but it’s very bitter. Could the use of a NC really produce such a significant effect? I didn’t notice any sign of infection and I have been very particular with cleaning and sanitising of all kit.

    Hop addictions as follows

    30g Cascade @ 60
    45g Cascade @ 10
    30g Cascade + 15g Galaxy @ 5
    30g Cascade @ 0
    45g Galaxy @ 3 days dry hop

    There was a whirlfloc chucked in @ 10 also.
     
    bigmacthepunker likes this.
  2. manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler

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    Posted 10/12/17
    As the wort stays hot longer (above about 80), you'll extract more bitterness from late additions. More an issue with something like your ipa above than say an alt for example.

    You can look at moving all late additions to whirlpool or cube to reduce/fix. There are other methods, including reducing the size of your 60 min addition.
     
    Edd likes this.
  3. laxation

    Phlegm TB

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    Posted 10/12/17
    You need to push everything back 15-20 minutes. For a recipe like the one you posted, I would do this:

    30g Cascade @ 60
    30g Cascade @ 0
    75g Cascade + 15g Galaxy @ cube
    45g Galaxy @ 3 days dry hop
     
    Edd likes this.
  4. Ducatiboy stu

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    Posted 10/12/17
    Yes

    This has been discussed a million times on AHB

    When we first started No-Chill ( some of us almost got burnt at the stake for daring to to mention it ) the first thing we noticed was the beer was more bitter

    Eventually we worked out it was the extended time being hot that caused the extra bitternes, so basically you need to push everything back by 15-20mins , IE, reduce your addition times by 15-20mins

    With NC a 0min addition ends up being a 15-20min addition
     
    Bucks and wide eyed and legless like this.
  5. Edd

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    Posted 11/12/17
    Thanks for reply’s, I had seen some posts recommending the readjustment of hopping but also some to the contrary. I guess having now experienced it first hand I will be moving to the ‘readjustment’ camp for my next brew. The advised hop reschedule above looks well worth a try, thanks @laxation
    It’s amazing how slight changes can have such a significant effect on the beer.
     
    laxation likes this.
  6. laxation

    Phlegm TB

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    Posted 11/12/17
    I brewed two beers without adjusting and since moving it a few minutes, haven't looked back :)
    The non-adjusted beers were still good, but just more bitter as you picked up.

    I haven't found a 0 minute addition to add a whole lot, but I'm not very picky and haven't made many of each. Be interesting to hear what others think of this addition
     
    bigmacthepunker likes this.
  7. wide eyed and legless

    Pro Pro

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    Posted 11/12/17
    The thing about the extra bitterness is you learn to live with it, since changing to the Argon method I am missing the extra bitterness. Such is life.
     
  8. Edd

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    Posted 11/12/17
    Cheers, but whats the 'Argon method' mate? Sounds serious.
     
  9. Edd

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    Posted 11/12/17
    I'm throwing a brew down this weekend. I will slightly tweak the additions and see what comes out. Nice one.
     
    laxation likes this.
  10. wide eyed and legless

    Pro Pro

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    Posted 11/12/17
    Edd likes this.
  11. TheSumOfAllBeers

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    Posted 11/12/17
    I regularly hit my IBU ceiling with no chill, especially with high alpha hops.
     
  12. Bomber Rock

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    Posted 15/12/17
    I've done 3 all grain BIAB's now, all into no chill cubes. First 2 were kits, and the third a furphy clone based on a thread here. For whatever reason, the first, a pacific ale from Grain & Grape tasted as it should (I assume). The 2nd (a NZ Pilsner from Beer Co) treated a little too bitter than I think it should have, but was still a delight to drink.

    The furphy clone, I tasted last night, even though it isn't fully carbonated yet. It is way too bitter. Don't get me wrong, I'll still drink it. Ironically, for brews 2 and 3, I adjusted the hops additions to factor in no chill. The other interesting point, the outside ambient temp was hotter for each batch I brewed, so perhaps each batch took that bit longer to drop below 80deg C?

    What are everyone's thoughts on putting the no chill cube, once filled, into an ice bath to get the Temp below 80 as quick as possible?
     
  13. Ducatiboy stu

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    Posted 15/12/17
    Nothing wrong with that at all. A pool is even better
     
  14. Rocker1986

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    Posted 15/12/17
    I've found the last few APAs I've done have been a little over bittered as well, now I've been brewing NC for 5 years and only recently started noticing this issue, but I also have pretty much quit smoking this year so maybe the taste buds are a bit more sensitive to it than they used to be.

    I normally have either a 60 minute or first wort hop addition, then the rest from 10 minutes and below. On the most recent batch I decided to leave the late additions as normal and simply reduce the amount of the 60 minute addition to drop the IBUs down to the mid 30s instead of the 38-40 I have used up until now. I also employed a cube hop. This batch is due in the FV on either Sunday or Monday so I'll know how it worked out in about 3 weeks.
     
  15. Bomber Rock

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    Posted 15/12/17
    Unfortunately, I don't have a pool, or the money to have one built. Will definitely give the ice bath a go next brew.

    Rocker, I should point out, I move my 15min additions to flame out and flame out to cube, but yeah, still quite bitter.
     
  16. mattyh77

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    Posted 15/12/17
    I've got one in the fermenter now where I didn't do a 60 min addition. Moved it to 30 and the rest at flameout. Dry hopping tomorrow. All with Simcoe. Will see if it's a little less bitter.
     
  17. laxation

    Phlegm TB

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    Posted 15/12/17
    Worth giving a go putting all the hops in the cube, not at flameout. I've loved beers made that way.
    Edit* if you find FO still too bitter
     
    Beamer likes this.
  18. peteru

    Here, taste this!

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    Posted 15/12/17
    One of those kids inflatable pools, filled with rain water from the tank could do the trick.

    If you get a submersible pump, you might be able to have the water re-circulate. From water tank, running over the cube, into kiddie pool, then pumped back into water tank.
     
  19. Rocker1986

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    Posted 15/12/17
    I suppose I technically "move" additions as well but I just construct recipes with the NC effect in mind and list them where they're to be added. If I brewed someone else's recipe I'd do it as written first and then change things if needed if I brewed it again.
     
  20. Edd

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    Posted 15/12/17
    Let us know how that bad boy goes, this is how I might go for the next one. Funnily enough when I put the hops into BeerSmith based on the recipe stated at start of thread the IBU is nearly 70 anyway. That’s pretty damn bitter, right? Looks a bit OTT for an APA by my reckoning. Shit, there’s so much to learn about this stuff!
     
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