No Carbonatoin Present After Two Weeks

[primusbrew]

Hi Guys,

Two weeks ago I bottled a partial pilsener. I used the SAFLAGER W34/70 yeast. It fermented for about two weeks at 12 degress celcius. I then racked to secondary for about 3 weeks. I primed the bottles with some LDME. I have kept the bottles in kitchen cupboard.

After opening one last night to check how they were coming along I was confused to find that there was no carbonation present at all. Could the yeast have become inactive? This is the first time that I have used a secondary fermentation so is it possible for there to be not enough yeast left for the beers to carbonate?

Thanks,
Jesse

 

[Interloper]

It fermented for about two weeks at 12 degress celcius. I then racked to secondary for about 3 weeks.
Thanks,
Jesse

3 weeks in 2ndry seems a long time to me. A 5 week ferment may have used up all your yeast?

I had a recent issue with no/low carb after 10 days in the bottle. I brought all bottles in from my freezing cold shed, shook the buggers up to wake up the yeast and let them sit in a warmer room (19 degrees+)

After 7 more days carbonation is present and beers are drinkable and getting better. I will probably move some back out to the cooler shed conditions in a month to store them for a longer period.

I understand that bottle carbonation will only occur above 18 degrees.

 

[matti]

W34/70 is a lager yeast and it (the yeast) can be lazy eating up the malt.
Next time prime with pure dextrose.

Just make sure you dissolve it in water first or use those darn carbonation drops if you single prime,

My Pilsner was flat as a tack after 2 1/2 weeks with dextrose. Yesterday I opened a few.
4 weeks since bottling.
Tzzzsssssss..... fully carbed. Time to put some more in fridge for tonight b4 they explode. hehehe

 

[Stuster]

You should be fine. Three weeks in secondary is not that long and there'll certainly be plenty of yeast left after that. What temperature are the bottles at? Was there really no carbonation at all?

 

[primusbrew]

There may have been a very small amount of carbonation. I am storing the bottles in a cupboard that may not be very warm. Maybe the next time we get a warm day I could move them outside for a while.

Would it be a bad idea to Open the bottles, add some dextrose and then recap?

 

[Stuster]

If there was a very little carbonation, I'd say give it some time. I'd give it another week or two and then try again. Hard to wait I know but if you re-prime them you may end up with twice as much carbonation as you need and possible bottle bombs. Patience.

 

[rich_lamb]

This type of thing was pretty typical for me when using secondaries, and I only do ales - for lagers and the problem is worse. I had to wait 6 months for carbonation in one extreme case.

Two weeks bottle conditioning is asking a bit even for a top fermenting yeast with no secondary and a faster priming sugar like dextrose.

In your case there is one easy fix - patience. I wouldn't be opening the bottles. I tried opening bottles and injecting more yeast and it never really did anything. Time is key, and even more important for lagers.

 

[Steve Lacey]

I primed the bottles with some LDME.

How about some more details on that? How much malt powder, how did you add it? Did you bulk prime or add a little at a time to each bottle?

One possible candidate I'm thinking is uneven mixing of your priming solution so that you have some underprimed bottles (the ones you've tested) and some over-primed.

The cupboard might be too cold for the yeast, but being a lager yeast, that seems unlikely. Or perhaps the combination of low yeast numbers and cool temps means it is just proceeding slowly. It won't happen overnight, but...

 

[BoilerBoy]

How about some more details on that? How much malt powder, how did you add it? Did you bulk prime or add a little at a time to each bottle?

One possible candidate I'm thinking is uneven mixing of your priming solution so that you have some underprimed bottles (the ones you've tested) and some over-primed.

The cupboard might be too cold for the yeast, but being a lager yeast, that seems unlikely. Or perhaps the combination of low yeast numbers and cool temps means it is just proceeding slowly. It won't happen overnight, but...

Agreed, need to know how many litres and the amount of LDME used.
I woukd find it difficult to believe there isn't enough yeast, I have often lagered beers for 4-6 weeks then filtered (1 micron filter) then bottled they still carb up in 2-3 weeks.

Cheers,
BB

 

[Steve]

Would it be a bad idea to Open the bottles, add some dextrose and then recap?

yes it would be a bad idea.....you would lose a quarter of each bottle as it will froth out the top. Let us know how much malt you used.
Cheers
Steve

 

[primusbrew]

I primed them all individually. I used one of those plastic measuring spoons. The ones that are designed for brewing. On one side they have a cup with the amount for a stubbie and the other side they have a cup that holds enough primer for a long neck. As I had 330 ml bottles I used the smaller cup.

Was this the right thing to do? I have only ever used carbonation drops before.

 

[Interloper]

bulk priming FTW.... Love it. Wouldn't go back to spending $$ on carb drops or the time on individual bottles and sugar...

 

[BoilerBoy]

I primed them all individually. I used one of those plastic measuring spoons. The ones that are designed for brewing. On one side they have a cup with the amount for a stubbie and the other side they have a cup that holds enough primer for a long neck. As I had 330 ml bottles I used the smaller cup.

Was this the right thing to do? I have only ever used carbonation drops before.

Malt is not entirely fermentable where as sugar/dextrose are, so for priming purposes you would need more malt to achieve the same level of carbonation, but how much more is a bit of a guess???

Having said that the measuring spoons as far as I can remember are measured for 375ml & 750ml size bottles, so 330ml bottle may make up for some of the difference, but again its only a guess?

This is the advantage of bulk priming where you measure out grams per litre, mix it in before you bottle, then you can use whatever size bottles you want.

Cheers,
BB

 

[primusbrew]

I think next time I will try bulk priming. Any advice on this method?

 

[Interloper]

I think next time I will try bulk priming. Any advice on this method?

use the calculator on this site to see how much sugar to use

1. Get 1 x plastic cube (bunnings/K-mart $15-$25)
2. Get 1 x food grade plastic tube to go from fermenter tap into plastic cube (bunnings $5)
3. Dissolve 160-180 grams of cheap homebrand white sugar in a 100 mls of water (or whatever calc tells you to use)
4. Cool
5. Tip sugar water into bottom of cube
6. Connect plastic tube to fermenter tap
7. Stick tube in bottom of cube
8. Turn fermenter tap on until empty
9. As beer goes into cube it mixes with sugar water - the "priming syrup"
10. Bottle from cube as normal, using any size bottle you like with out worrying about over/under carb and without spending a fortune on carb drops.

 

[Steve Lacey]

But anyway, not to be sidetracked here on various priming methods, you added a half teaspoon or so of dry malt powder to each 330 mL bottle. I have two conflicting thoughts going on. 1) These scoops are calibrated for the volume of the scoop to deliver a certain weight of granulated sucrose. A given volume of dry malt will weigh somewhat (I don't know how much) less than the same volume of dry sugar. As somebody else mentioned, maltose yields less CO2 than an equivalent weight of sucrose. (According to the calculator in the previous post, almost twice as much malt by weight is needed.)

2) The conflicting thought to this is that you <i>should still get noticeable carbonation</i>. Whether it is enough for your taste is another matter. I suspect it might be on the low side.

So, you probably really have underprimed by an extent to which some remedial measures should be considered. You cannot add granulated sugar to the bottles as they will indeed froth over. What you need to do is dissolve 100* g of dry malt in X mL of boiling water (where X = No of bottles to be primed times 5 mL/bottle). Then carefully prize off the lid and add 5 mL of priming solution to each bottle using a sanitized syringe. If you are careful you should be able to re-cap with the same cap.

An assistant would help stop this job sending you insane. You might also like to do as some of the others have suggested and just wait a couple of weeks before embarking on this rescue plan. In the meantime, you'll just have to go thirsty ;-)

* This is really just an educated guess. It will get you into the required ballpark, but could be adjusted up or down if you look into it in more detail. Edit: Likewise, you could use dextrose or sucrose instead of malt but will have to adjust the weight downwards, e.g 60g of sugar, 70 g of dextrose