Next Step

[Punchus]

Morning

I am currently looking at starting my second batch. The first batch of IPA is currently in bottles and I should be drinking by Christmas.

The first batch was a simple kit and I just followed the instructions straight up. I am now thinking I am going to stick with IPA (for comparison) but make the brew a little more interesting.

I am interested to know what you think should be the next step on the path to AG.

I was thinking of moving to an extract and boiling myself. Is that generally the way people go?

 

[Mikedub]

thats the path I took, but when i did my first AG I thought maybe I should have just done this instead, checkout this thread by Nick JD
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=38674
nothing wrong with extract brewing but I highly recommend this method, in fact its tits
as well as getting into hopping schedules you will come to understand malts a lot quicker

 

[Xarb]

I always recommend new brewers go step by step. Maybe I'm a moron but if I went from 100% extract to AG it would have been overwhelming.

1) Kit and Kilo, maybe some dry hopping.
2) Unhopped extract with a boil and adding their own hops.
2a) Same as above but with steeping some specialty malts (I skipped this part)
3) AG, preferably BIAB due to it's low cost of entry and simplicity (and awesomeness).

 

[Baulko Brewer]

+1

If I could go back in time, I would have ditched the kits and went straight to BIAB AG. I had made a lot of kits and extracts, then read Nicks tutorial and haven't looked back. I am now brewing in a Birko and love the results.

 

[drtomc]

I went from kits + bits (hops, DME, but no grains). Did 30-40 kits, then straight to BIAB.

It's not a bad idea to sort out fermentation issues/process (also called "cold side") before embarking on mashing. It's easier to work through your mistakes if you make them one at a time.

T.

 

[loikar]

Well, most people know what I reckon

briefly Looking at some of the pics of your Blog, it appears as though you have everything from ferment onwards or as drtomc says "the cold Side".
Definitely look through the link Mikedub posted, AG is a little more complexed to understand, and while the process is longer, it's no more difficult and arguably more satisfying.

Keep making your K&K beers (just for now) but post here and see if you can help an AG brewer out on his brewday. This will put more in perspective in 4 hours than reading and posting here for a week.

work out what method you're going to use, get all your gear and away you go.
By this time, you should have an understanding of how the cold side works, as regardless of your method of making the wort, all brewers need to ferment.

I don't see the point in slowly making your way to AG.
If we were making explosives or volatile chemicals, sure, baby steps the whole way. but this is just beer, it's not rocket science.

So Stick at your K&K for now but attend a brew day and work out how your going to do it.
from there, you'll never look back.

Cheers,

BF

 

[flano]

Do what Mikedub said.

I went straight from fresh wort kits to BIAB.

still learning ...it's been about 18 months since I started BIABing and have only strayed about 3 times to the bottle shop.
So the beer has been good enough to stop me buying it.

If you are serious and want f#%$ing great home made beer ,I would suggest getting into kegging.
Nothing like the feeling of drinking 8 schooners.... from the one glass.

The missus never knows how many you have had.

 

[Jazzafish]

Morning

I am currently looking at starting my second batch. The first batch of IPA is currently in bottles and I should be drinking by Christmas.

The first batch was a simple kit and I just followed the instructions straight up. I am now thinking I am going to stick with IPA (for comparison) but make the brew a little more interesting.

I am interested to know what you think should be the next step on the path to AG.

I was thinking of moving to an extract and boiling myself. Is that generally the way people go?

Punchus,

If I could do it all again I'd do it in this order:
1) Master sanitation. I'd say you have gotten this far already. Pretty easy.
2) Control the fermentation temperature. It is hard to make anything of a high standard without it.
3) Ferment fresh wort kits until you are satisfied that you have quality beer. Keep the cubes if you can (remember sanitation). Doesn't matter how you make your wort, you will be dissapointed if you cant control the fermentation or sanitation. This should always be the first things to learn IMHO.

Once you are happy with fermentation:
4) Look into kegging. Clean one keg or 30 to 60 bottles. So much less lime and effort... and you should bottle first to really appreciate them!
5) Join a local brew club, especially one that has group brews... or find a local all grain brewer and ask to tag along/help out on a brewday or two. You may just find one who will happily brew a double batch to fill one of your no chill cubes.
6) Start to build your own all grain system or buy a pre built system if you prefer.
7) Return the favour by helping any one interested in brewing.

EDIT: By controlling the fermentation temperature I mean get an old working fridge that can fit a fermenter and put a digital thermostat on it... tape the temperature sensing probe to your fermenter. There is a reason why pro brewers hold fermentation at a set temperature without flucctuation... makes better beer. The fridge is the closest you'll get to this at home for a reasonable cost.

 

[Spork]

If you reckon you can sanitise OK, and have temp control down pat - go AG ASAP.
Only need to do 1 - 2 kit/s to know if you got the sanitation OK or not.
Temp control - you have an old fridge / freezer and an STC 1000 (or similar) or you don't... shouldn't need to worry about the heating side of it for a few months.

I did 3 x kits and bits, 2 with "proper" temp. control, and thay varied from shit to drinkable. (just) Then I tried NickJD's stovetop AG for < $30 and was hooked! Decent beer, made by me! Soon after got and urn and a "proper" bag, so I could do full size batches. Next was a mill, then I could bulk buy grains (nowhere local sells grains, postage on small recipe size amounts adds up pretty quick).

Soon tired of bottling, so now I have a keezer and 4 kegs. (need more kegs...)
My only regret is the wasted time and effort of doing those 3 kits. (and having only 4 kegs)

To summarise: *Get temp control for fermentation.
* Read the move to AG for < $30 thread.
* Sanitise. Everything.
* Do the AG for < $30
* ?????
* PROFIT!

 

[stux]

Well, most people know what I reckon

briefly Looking at some of the pics of your Blog, it appears as though you have everything from ferment onwards or as drtomc says "the cold Side".
Definitely look through the link Mikedub posted, AG is a little more complexed to understand, and while the process is longer, it's no more difficult and arguably more satisfying.

Keep making your K&K beers (just for now) but post here and see if you can help an AG brewer out on his brewday. This will put more in perspective in 4 hours than reading and posting here for a week.

work out what method you're going to use, get all your gear and away you go.
By this time, you should have an understanding of how the cold side works, as regardless of your method of making the wort, all brewers need to ferment.

I don't see the point in slowly making your way to AG.
If we were making explosives or volatile chemicals, sure, baby steps the whole way. but this is just beer, it's not rocket science.

So Stick at your K&K for now but attend a brew day and work out how your going to do it.
from there, you'll never look back.

Cheers,

BF

I must admit I agree with BF here.

Skip the extract stage.

Extract was a way to throw dollars at a brew to get around the equipment requirements of all-grain, and is essentially obsoleted by BIAB.

The only difference between a BIAB setup and an extract setup is the $8 of voile you need for the 'bag', which doesn't even have to be a bag.

 

[boingk]

The hell with extract... a bittered malt base made from extract is what kits are for! I usually brew nowdays by getting a kit, then adding specialty grains and hopping to it to make the sort of beer I'm after.

Mostly, I can't be assed with investing so much time in a brew as you tend to do with AG or even BIAB. I can't deny, though, that they definitely produce the best beer by far.

Cheers - boingk

 

[manticle]

I must admit I agree with BF here.

Skip the extract stage.

Extract was a way to throw dollars at a brew to get around the equipment requirements of all-grain, and is essentially obsoleted by BIAB.

The only difference between a BIAB setup and an extract setup is the $8 of voile you need for the 'bag', which doesn't even have to be a bag.

Actually extract is a really good way to learn about hopping a brew properly and what hops contribute. It can also help brewers understand recipe design.

My advice - work out which steps you are comfortable taking and which you feel you can omit. Don't let anyone else tell you NOT to try a step. By the same token, don't let anyone else tell you you can't brew AG without taking a particular step. Make up your own mind.

Apart from that, attending a brewday when you have some inkling of how beer is made demystifies the whole thing.

And I'm sorry but you can make decent beer without buying an expensive kegging system. I've been brewing decent AG beer for several years now and I still bottle everything and I still stick my fermenters in cold water baths and brew to seasons.

Kegging is something I will do one day but it's absolutely the last thing I would worry about as a new homebrewer wanting to improve my brews. Temp control is absolutely important but you can be more inventive than just 'buy another expensive piece of equipment that uses a whole lot of power and takes up extra room in your house' if you need to. If you have the space, the money, the conscience or whatever then fine but you can think outside the sqaure and some people need to.

I live in Melbourne though so it's easier for me to brew to seasons than some states, I'll grant. I also run a second fridge to keep hops and yeast and for lagering so I'll heat my hypocrite pie and smile. It just should be less of a mantra.

Buy a fridge, buy kegs, go all grain etc, etc. I thought brewers were an inventive lot?

 

[Silo Ted]

Everyone bangs about so much extra time doing all grain. For new members who think it takes 4 hours, allow me to clarify. From when you start to when you finish, there's whole lot of downtime to do other things. You get your mash sorted out, then come back in an hour. There's nothing else you can do. You recirc & sparge (or for BIAB, pull the bag out and drain). Bring it to the boil, thats another 1/2 hour downtime. The next hour you come back once or twice to throw hops in. Mosty more downtime.

In realtity, AG brewing should be said to take one hour only, segmented over a four hour period. Your ultimately reserving yourself some "me time" for three hours to do whatever the hell you want.

 

[Maheel]

You get your mash sorted out, then come back in an hour. There's nothing else you can do. You recirc & sparge (or for BIAB, pull the bag out and drain). Bring it to the boil, thats another 1/2 hour downtime. The next hour you come back once or twice to throw hops in. Mosty more downtime.

yeah i often go mow the yard, clean up, check the pool whatever jobs need doing.

you even have time to clean the house to make the SWMBO happy

sitting there watching the mash is boring anyway

 

[DUANNE]

i agree with the skipping of extract. if you are already steeping grain and doing a full boil you might as well be biabing. it will add around 40mins to the whole process. also with extract it gets really expensive for a beer that is only marginally better than cans. if your sanitation and fermenting procedures are spot on skip extract and go biab.

 

[Spork]

yeah i often go mow the yard, clean up, check the pool whatever jobs need doing.

you even have time to clean the house to make the SWMBO happy

sitting there watching the mash is boring anyway

My last brew day took over 5 hours (including measuring and milling the grain and a 110 min boil).
In between I painted gazebo roof, mowed lawns, made lunch and sprayed a bunch of weeds.
I used to bottle on brew day too, but now I keg, so that takes SFA time.

 

[tavas]

I skipped straight over extract and went the AG route also. But I had some K&K's in the past so understood the basics of fermentation and sanitation.

Also agree with the comments on time. your first few brews will be time killers as you'll be watching it like a hawk, but once you're comfortable you'll be walking off and doing other things.

BUT before you start, you need to do some homework!!!!

Use the search function to read up and understand what you are trying to do. Everything you will ever need to know about brewing is on this website. There may be some things you WANT to know, but what you NEED to know has already been discussed at length.

Avoid the temptation to go too exotic too quick. I brewed Dr Smurto's Golden Ale for my first 4 or 5 brews until I understood what mistakes I was making. Pick a recipe, get it right first before trying triple decoctions or Imperial Stouts.

As Beerfingers said, it's not rocket science, but there are a few traps for young players which "might" seem insurmountable. They're not. Brewing is 8,000 years old!!! Research is your friend in this case.

Good luck.

 

[drtomc]

As Beerfingers said, it's not rocket science, but there are a few traps for young players which "might" seem insurmountable. They're not. Brewing is 8,000 years old!!! Research is your friend in this case.

So rather than using Google, I should take a holiday to visit 8000 year old brewing sites to do my research. Excellent. That's a beer geek's holiday with a difference.

T.

 

[Nick JD]

Your ultimately reserving yourself some "me time" for three hours to do whatever the hell you want.

I often go for a walk or a quick surf when mashing.

Boiling I watch recorded TV (often I save a MotoGP or a F1 or some tennis/rugby for boiling entertainment).

Making beer is fun. You can watch 2 movies while doing it.

 

[tavas]

So rather than using Google, I should take a holiday to visit 8000 year old brewing sites to do my research. Excellent. That's a beer geek's holiday with a difference.

T.

Egypt, Germany, Belgium...there's plenty of worse places to visit