Newer Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone recipe help

[bigadz]

Hi Guys, long time listener (way to long) first time caller.

I'm looking to do my second kit recipe after putting together a DrSmurto Golden Ale which was fantastic.

I really would like to do a SNPA and have been reading all of the recipes out there but have settled somewhere between the byo recipe (https://byo.com/recipe/sierra-nevada-pale-ale-clone-2/) and the newer recipe provided by SN themselves (https://sierranevada.com/blog/pale-ale-homebrew-recipe/).

The biggest difference (besides me not going AG yet) is the hops and schedule. Newer recipe is all cascade which I have on hand.

I chuck everything into Brewfather which I'm teaching myself to use and the IBU's come out higher than the anticipated 37.

The recipe:

19L Batch Size
OG 1.055
FG 1.011
3kg Briess Golden Light LME
450g Briess Caramalt 60L
113g Briess Golden Light DME
Cascade 0.5 oz (14g). 90 min
Cascade 0.75 oz. (21g) 60 min
Cascade 2 oz. (57g) 30 min
Cascade 2 oz. (57g) 0 min (flame out)
WLP001 yeast starter

This gives me 66 IBU well over the the 37 suggested in the recipes. I can scale down the IBU's using brewfather which automatically takes care of it for me but I'm reluctant to do something without understanding the why.

What am I doing wrong? Is a 90min boil too much for extract? Does something happen with the conversion from AG to Extract that gives me more IBU's?

I know I still have much to learn, and am reading every piece of literature I can, and have searched the forum (happy to be linked to something if I have missed it!) so any help is appreciated.

Next stop for me is AG, but I know I have a lot more to learn!

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

You need to know how much alpha acid the hops have, usually abbreviated to AA

This is my hop schedule which gives approximately 40 IBU, tastes good too.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hi Guys, long time listener (way to long) first time caller.

I'm looking to do my second kit recipe after putting together a DrSmurto Golden Ale which was fantastic.

I really would like to do a SNPA and have been reading all of the recipes out there but have settled somewhere between the byo recipe (https://byo.com/recipe/sierra-nevada-pale-ale-clone-2/) and the newer recipe provided by SN themselves (https://sierranevada.com/blog/pale-ale-homebrew-recipe/).

The biggest difference (besides me not going AG yet) is the hops and schedule. Newer recipe is all cascade which I have on hand.

I chuck everything into Brewfather which I'm teaching myself to use and the IBU's come out higher than the anticipated 37.

The recipe:

19L Batch Size
OG 1.055
FG 1.011
3kg Briess Golden Light LME
450g Briess Caramalt 60L
113g Briess Golden Light DME
Cascade 0.5 oz (14g). 90 min
Cascade 0.75 oz. (21g) 60 min
Cascade 2 oz. (57g) 30 min
Cascade 2 oz. (57g) 0 min (flame out)
WLP001 yeast starter

This gives me 66 IBU well over the the 37 suggested in the recipes. I can scale down the IBU's using brewfather which automatically takes care of it for me but I'm reluctant to do something without understanding the why.

What am I doing wrong? Is a 90min boil too much for extract? Does something happen with the conversion from AG to Extract that gives me more IBU's?

I know I still have much to learn, and am reading every piece of literature I can, and have searched the forum (happy to be linked to something if I have missed it!) so any help is appreciated.

Next stop for me is AG, but I know I have a lot more to learn!

They are actual hop cones in the recipe, the pellets will be giving you the higher extraction. I understood that the IBU's are around 38 so what SHB posted to get 40 is about right

 

[MHB]

Yep I get 68 IBU when I put it in what I use to calculate bitterness.
Roughly (rounded) and based on pellets rather than cones, so a few points bitterer than the same weight in flowers (say ~5%) Based on the cascade pellets I have available 7.3% AA.
90 minute contributes 12.5 IBU
60 minute contributes 17.5 IBU
30 minute contributes 36 IBU
0 minute contributes ~2 IBU

Personally I'm not a big fan of hop additions in the 20-40 minute range I think you loose most of the taste and aroma and only get a fraction (about half) of the bitterness, so sort of wasted. I would be putting an axe into the 30 minute addition.
Similarly with 60 minute addition, it wont give much if any taste and aroma and will give less bitterness than the 90 minute addition.
Something like
90 minutes 12.5g
30 minutes 40g
0 minutes 57g
Would put you at around 40 IBU and keep all the hop taste and aroma SNPA is famous for.

No need to be too fussy trying to hit bitterness numbers exactly you cant, there are just too many variables and even experienced beer judges really cant tell much closer than 5 IBU how bitter a beer is, our taste just isn't that discriminating.
If you wound up somewhere in the 35-45 IBU range it will be fine, just adjust to taste on the next brew.
Mark

 

[bigadz]

Really appreciate all your help guys!

Will have a play and see what it does!

 

[bigadz]

Yep I get 68 IBU when I put it in what I use to calculate bitterness.
Roughly (rounded) and based on pellets rather than cones, so a few points bitterer than the same weight in flowers (say ~5%) Based on the cascade pellets I have available 7.3% AA.
90 minute contributes 12.5 IBU
60 minute contributes 17.5 IBU
30 minute contributes 36 IBU
0 minute contributes ~2 IBU

Personally I'm not a big fan of hop additions in the 20-40 minute range I think you loose most of the taste and aroma and only get a fraction (about half) of the bitterness, so sort of wasted. I would be putting an axe into the 30 minute addition.
Similarly with 60 minute addition, it wont give much if any taste and aroma and will give less bitterness than the 90 minute addition.
Something like
90 minutes 12.5g
30 minutes 40g
0 minutes 57g
Would put you at around 40 IBU and keep all the hop taste and aroma SNPA is famous for.

No need to be too fussy trying to hit bitterness numbers exactly you cant, there are just too many variables and even experienced beer judges really cant tell much closer than 5 IBU how bitter a beer is, our taste just isn't that discriminating.
If you wound up somewhere in the 35-45 IBU range it will be fine, just adjust to taste on the next brew.
Mark

Is this using extract and grain? Is 90mins OK for extract? I'll definitely try your hop schedule!

 

[MHB]

It isn't really going to matter, given the same hops, its more about the gravity of the wort, the vigor of the boil, the amount of hops... Not really going to matter if you got the sweet water from grain or a can.

My standard boil is 90 minutes and I would use the same for extract, it has more to do with reducing high molecular weight protein than anything else. you don't need a raging boil, 10% evaporation per hour is ideal. As a new brewer it is good to keep accurate before and after boil volume records and do the numbers, can save you a bunch in LPG.

Bit of info on why we boil a wort - welcome to the learning curve... or the never ending story.
Mark

 

[bigadz]

It isn't really going to matter, given the same hops, its more about the gravity of the wort, the vigor of the boil, the amount of hops... Not really going to matter if you got the sweet water from grain or a can.

My standard boil is 90 minutes and I would use the same for extract, it has more to do with reducing high molecular weight protein than anything else. you don't need a raging boil, 10% evaporation per hour is ideal. As a new brewer it is good to keep accurate before and after boil volume records and do the numbers, can save you a bunch in LPG.

Bit of info on why we boil a wort - welcome to the learning curve... or the never ending story.
Mark

Many thanks for the info. I've checked my hops and they have an AA range listed in them that's quite broad 4.5 to 8.9.

When subbing these into brewfather, what figure do I give it?

 

[MHB]

I would change suppliers, use one who gives you the real number.
If you don't know, as a rule when given a range - choose the middle - in this case that would be 6.7%
Most of the last crop was a bit higher than that, (7.3%...)
Mind you if the supplier isn't putting the Alpha on, who the hell knows when or where they are from.
Mark

 

[bigadz]

I would change suppliers, use one who gives you the real number.
If you don't know, as a rule when given a range - choose the middle - in this case that would be 6.7%
Most of the last crop was a bit higher than that, (7.3%...)
Mind you if the supplier isn't putting the Alpha on, who the hell knows when or where they are from.
Mark

I got the hops from keglang, on the package it has a range, but on the site it says:

Alpha Acid: 5.3%
Beer styles: American pale ale, Barley Wine, Ale, Lager
Similar hops: Amarillo hops, Centennial
Aroma: Citrus, Floral
Purpose: Dual-purpose
Origin: USA
Crop Year: 2018

So im assuming go with 5.3? Brewfather defaults it at 5.5