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New research on dry yeast

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Muzzanthrope

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Not to derail the thread but here is (apparently) my water profile - I haven't measured pH yet, I only just got a meter and haven't opened the box yet..
Alkalinity Bicarbonate (CaCO3) - 16 mg/L
Calcium - 9 mg/L
Chloride - 14 mg/L
Magnesium - 2.13 mg/L
Sodium - 5.6 mg/L
Sulphate - 13.2 mg/L

Using EZWater I have been treating with gypsum, epsom salts, (more recently) calcium chloride and a dash of baking soda. To be honest the best beer I've brewed to date was the first one where I made zero additions, every beer after that I started doing additions as I was having trouble with fermentation but then things started tasting a little.. weird! I made too many changes at once so the last brew I did I replicated that first brew with the exception of adding water additions (10g Gypsum, 5g Epsom Salts,10g Calcium Chloride) and this too tasted slightly weird. The treated water itself tasted fine before I mashed in but the resulting beer also just had this subtle but distinct off-flavour.. next time I'm thinking I'll omit all water additions and maybe just try the campden tablet, I dunno!
I meant more how are you currently removing the Chlorine from your water? But one thing you did mention was your new pH meter - as well as removing the Chlorine from your water I would also take a look at your mash pH to make sure it's not too high.
 

Rocker1986

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The mineral additions need to suit the style of beer you're brewing as well. You can't just use the same additions for every style and expect them all to turn out great. If I used the same minerals for a pilsner that I do for a pale ale it'd be shit. You can always adjust mash pH with acid or acidulated malt if required, it doesn't have to be done with mineral salt additions. The pH of the water is largely irrelevant to the mash pH anyway, you need to measure the mash pH and adjust that, not the water itself.

I'm in a situation now where I'm sick of guessing the tap water profile based on vague reports found online from a year or two ago so I've decided to just distill all the water I use and build profiles from scratch for every batch (previously only did this with pilsners to get very soft water like your profile there). I'll be trying this on a brown ale next, and after that a pale ale. It'll be interesting to compare to the same beers brewed with tap water and somewhat guessed additions. If there's no real difference then I won't bother continuing it, but if they improve then I will keep it up.
 

Schikitar

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I meant more how are you currently removing the Chlorine from your water?
Oh right, I'm not currently.

I would also take a look at your mash pH to make sure it's not too high.
I'll definitely do this on the next brew!

The mineral additions need to suit the style of beer you're brewing as well.
Yeah, that's why I didn't list the amounts of the additions as they do vary - I exclusively make anything between hop forward ales through to american stouts - I don't brew lagers, pilsners etc., as they don't appeal to my uneducated palate. I also like anchovies, olives and jalapenos on my pizza! ;)


I was going to post earlier that I have kinda gone full circle on yeast, went from dry to liquid and back to dry rehydrated. Have had similar results between the last two but the lag time is definitely shorter with a liquid starter - hard to beat the convenience of rehydrating though..
 

Digga

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Hahahahaha I’d much rather prefer to go in wet than dry! Hahahaha
 

Quokka42

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I will not reply to the untermenschen, but please, let's leave the kiddy toilet humour out?

I'm sorry I dropped out of the loop due to trolls for a while, but really happy to see you have stood the tide Kelsey - and I think you have actually grown as well. Not that I think you were lacking before - you might even know who I am from another forum, and that I am not afraid to admit I am wrong, 'though I sometimes get a little vehement when I am not and under attack. I really appreciate the valid, authenticated references you have provided - I might not be able to convince anyone else, but at least I feel privately vindicated.
 

MHB

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I will not reply to the untermenschen, but please, let's leave the kiddy toilet humour out?
Snip
Who exactly do you regard as sub-human?
Are you a fully paid-up member of the master race, seriously playing the old Nazi card is often the last resort of a lefty on the loosing side of an argument, I don't know what putting on the mantle says about anybody but suspect its nothing good.
 

brewgasm

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I have only rehydrated a few times in 50 odd batches. Not out of laziness but when I started brewing it was just to keep it simple, minimise risk of infection ect.. The few times I did rehydrate I wasn't really impressed with the results so I just stuck with the dry pitch and never really gave it much more thought.

I'm going to knock up a quick kit and kilo tomorrow and I'm seriously thinking about rehydrating for a change.
 

brewgasm

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Rehydrated 3 packets of bry-97 today, gotta say for a habitual dry pitcher it wasn't really much extra effort to be honest. One thing that I would like to know is what is best practice for getting the slurry down to wort temp?
 

Rocker1986

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Rehydrated 3 packets of bry-97 today, gotta say for a habitual dry pitcher it wasn't really much extra effort to be honest. One thing that I would like to know is what is best practice for getting the slurry down to wort temp?
What I've read is usually just adding small amounts of cooler water or wort to slowly bring the temp down. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the wort temp, within 5C should be ok.
 

brewgasm

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What I've read is usually just adding small amounts of cooler water or wort to slowly bring the temp down. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the wort temp, within 5C should be ok.
Thanks, that makes sense to me. I don't know if it is related to rehydration but BRY-97 is a monster! Yesterday (day 4) I had to clean up the top of the fermentor remove, clean and sanitise to airlock. About 10 hours later I found my airlock had been blown apart and spatter about the place so I had to replace the airlock with a blow off tube. The beast is still quite angry this morning but is contained. I am slightly worried about the contamination risk but I can't turn back time. Next time I use this yeast which will probably be next batch lol going to use the blow off tube from the start.
 

Rocker1986

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Hahah! I've only used that yeast once and didn't experience anything like that. I can't remember if I rehydrated it or not now, but I probably did. Another thing I didn't experience with it which seems quite common, is a really long lag time. Krausen was evident in 24 hours or less. I've seen a number of comments on it taking 2 days or more.
 

Leyther

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Ive used BRY-97 a lot, I have seen this but only once, generally its just a standard type ferment however I use a blow off most of the time these days just in case.
 

brewgasm

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Hahah! I've only used that yeast once and didn't experience anything like that. I can't remember if I rehydrated it or not now, but I probably did. Another thing I didn't experience with it which seems quite common, is a really long lag time. Krausen was evident in 24 hours or less. I've seen a number of comments on it taking 2 days or more.
I pitched at 18° for an 18° ferm so I was expecting a significant lag time. It was showing signs of fermentation 24hrs later (krausen was about 5mm and airlock showing pressure) it just kept climbing and by day 4 it was coming out of airlock.

I did use a dose of yeast nutrients (1.5 tsp in 60l of wort) and did have a sg of 1.060. I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Maybe I was lucky enough to get fresh yeast that was stored well.
 

brewgasm

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Ive used BRY-97 a lot, I have seen this but only once, generally its just a standard type ferment however I use a blow off most of the time these days just in case.
Might be a good idea to use a blow off tube from now on , I have used them in the past. I intend on using the same yeast in the next batch :)
 

hooper80

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I’d hate to see years of research by guys like Bolton on oxygen and yeast health derailed by a presentation somewhere ... I’d take with a grain of salt knowing billion of litres are successfully made with oxygen in mind.

White Labs did cells counts once on direct add vs hydration in water and I am sure almost 50% of cells died on the direct add. But, for a 12 Plato wort the small packs were almost 50% over on cell numbers required.

Dried yeast are lumped full of O2 at end of processing, so when the hit wort they can spring into action and get through the lag phase earlier and faster. So kinda kills that argument about importance of O2. The O2 makes the fatty acid walls of the cells softer than without, hence the short lag time.

As for storage, well I usually had 5000l on top, which was come to come pitched warm to the next for 6-8 gens. Anytime we repitched yeast cold was a probs, for home use this is a bit easier, but my advise is to always use warm yeast not cold
When u say warm yeast, what temp ya talking?
 

Thomas Wood

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I always rehydrate my yeast before pitching, but I don't think I have had a lag time less than 48hrs, most taking 60hrs before the iSpindel starts showing any signs of activity. Am I rehydrating too warm possibly?
 
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