need for full boil if no bittering hops?

[thisispants]

Hi, just wondering if I'm only adding hoos for flavour and aroma, us there a need to boil for 60 minutes.

I've worked out a recipe on brewmate, and as I'm going for a very happy beer, I don't really have a need for bittering good.

Can I just do a 20 minute boil?

 

[thisispants]

Sorry for the ridiculous auto correct, still getting used to this phone. Hopefully you can see what I'm getting at.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

brewing all grain or extract?

 

[thisispants]

All grain, brew in a bag.

 

[hoppy2B]

brewing all grain or extract?

With a question like that I'd say its probably extract. In which case just boil for the amount of time that you wish to add hops. So if you wish to add all your hops at 10 minutes, bring to the boil, chuck in the hops, boil a further 10 minutes and turn off the heat.
And then you would chill or no chill depending on what you're after.

 

[hoppy2B]

All grain, brew in a bag.

You would normally boil for an hour to avoid DMS.

 

[Tahoose]

Have a look for the 10 min IPA thread, lots of info on short boils in there, lots of different opinions aswell.

 

[gaijin]

Definitely brew for an hour at least if you are doing all grain. I have heard recently that recipes with pilsener base malt can benefit from a 90min boil, but I haven't found I've needed it, but will give it a go next time to see if it makes a difference.

Until I bought a rambo burner recently, I boiled my wort on a tiny bbq side burner. In one of my early attempts at an all grain, I (very slowly) boiled a pilsener which came out tasting unpleasantly nutty/cooked vegies. I found out after that it was because I kept the lid on in an attempt to speed up the boil.

Not boiling or boiling with the lid on will leave you with a drinkable but very underwhelming brew.

You live, you learn. You drink then forget what you learnt.

 

[manson81]

How does leaving the lid on affect it? I leave mine on until I reach the boil, then take it off until flame out. Should I not have the lid on? Haven't had any bad beers thus far...

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Have a look for the 10 min IPA thread, lots of info on short boils in there, lots of different opinions aswell.

^ this.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76190-10-minute-ipas-are-good-for-school-night-brewing/

 

[verysupple]

Have a look for the 10 min IPA thread, lots of info on short boils in there, lots of different opinions aswell.

I think this is the one you mean. If not, it's worth a read anyway.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76190-10-minute-ipas-are-good-for-school-night-brewing/

Here's my take: If you get a nice vigorous boil you can probably get away with a 20 - 30 min boil if not using a large amount of pils malt. I really don't think it takes very long to drive off SMM (precursor to DMS) if using modern ale malts. If you've boiled long enough to get a good hot break, then you've probably boiled long enough to accomplish most of what the boil is supposed to do. Longer times may be necessary for commercial brewers as their boil off is usually a bit lower than us homebrewers. Even then, some commercial brewers only boil for 30 min (sorry I can't find the source where I read that).

How does leaving the lid on affect it? I leave mine on until I reach the boil, then take it off until flame out. Should I not have the lid on? Haven't had any bad beers thus far...

That is fine. I think a lot of people use the lid during ramp up and remove it once it's boiling. As long as you boil without the lid for long enough to drive off things like SMM you're fine.

 

[GalBrew]

You really need to remove the lid once you have reached a boil. This allows things like SMM to be removed from the wort. If you leave the lid on it will just drop back into the wort off the lid. There is plenty of information around here regarding what the boil actually achieves other than hop alpha acid isomerisation.

Here is an article from BYO to get you going:
http://byo.com/stories/item/1650-wort-boiling-homebrew-science

 

[Bribie G]

With UK and Australian domestic malts I only boil for 30 mins nowadays unless using Euro Pilsener malts. Never have any problems with clarity or chill haze and if anything I get superior head and lacing.
Just came home from MHB with a sack of Wey Premium Pilsener and I'll be doing an hour boil to be on the safe side.

For a very hoppy beer I'd suggest going the 10 min IPA route and add with 10 mins to spare.

 

[dago001]

Exactly what BribieG said. I nearly always do a 30 minute boil these days. Only do a 60min boil when using Wey Pils malt. Very happy with the results, being mainly IPAs and APAs. Yet do do it with a malt forward beer. Next experiment will be just that.
I say - go for it.
Cheers
LB

 

[manticle]

Just be aware that wort boiling fulfils several functions besides driving off DMS and utilising alpha acids.

This may or may not be an issue for your beer but obviously shortening the boil affects all factors. These include gravity increase, evaporation, flavour development, break formation and colour development. Read the attached PDF:


Then trial and work out what is best for your beer.

View attachment 02 - The function of wort boiling1.pdf

 

[Bribie G]

Good point about the wort concentration, I forgot all about that first time round and wondered where the extra couple of litres had come from

 

[verysupple]

Just be aware that wort boiling fulfils several functions besides driving off DMS and utilising alpha acids.

This may or may not be an issue for your beer but obviously shortening the boil affects all factors. These include gravity increase, evaporation, flavour development, protein formation and colour development. Read the attached PDF:


Then trial and work out what is best for your beer.

What you say is true, however there is some less than stella information in that document. I'm not going to critique the entire thing but I will point out two misconceptions commonly spread that appear in this document.

1) Flavour development during the boil is very minimal in most beers. The exceptions are when a small volume is separately boiled down to a thick syrup and then added back. The temperatures during normal wort boiling aren't high enough to produce caramelisation and the Maillard reactions are minimal, even after 2 - 3 hours of boiling.

2) Colour development (also from Maillard reactions) is also very minimal/imperceptible for most beers with the same qualifiers as for flavour.

Getting back to the length of boil discussion, other functions such as sterilisation (or more correctly, sanitisation), halting enzyme activity , etc. all happen within a reasonably short period of time; only minutes for denaturing amylases and ~10 min for sanitisation for example.

You're right, the boil is very important and one should not cut corners. However achieving the goals of wort boiling doesn't actually take very much time. There may be rare occasions where a short boil is not sufficent to achieve your goals but for most beers 60 min is not necessary. Again, this assumues you get a good rolling boil going. If you're only simmering then it may take considerably longer or some functions won't ever occur.

Also, I think you mean protein denaturing and coagulation, not formation.

 

[manticle]

What you say is true, however there is some less than stella information in that document. I'm not going to critique the entire thing but I will point out two misconceptions commonly spread that appear in this document.

1) Flavour development during the boil is very minimal in most beers. The exceptions are when a small volume is separately boiled down to a thick syrup and then added back. The temperatures during normal wort boiling aren't high enough to produce caramelisation and the Maillard reactions are minimal, even after 2 - 3 hours of boiling.

2) Colour development (also from Maillard reactions) is also very minimal/imperceptible for most beers with the same qualifiers as for flavour.

Getting back to the length of boil discussion, other functions such as sterilisation (or more correctly, sanitisation), halting enzyme activity , etc. all happen within a reasonably short period of time; only minutes for denaturing amylases and ~10 min for sanitisation for example.

You're right, the boil is very important and one should not cut corners. However achieving the goals of wort boiling doesn't actually take very much time. There may be rare occasions where a short boil is not sufficent to achieve your goals but for most beers 60 min is not necessary. Again, this assumues you get a good rolling boil going. If you're only simmering then it may take considerably longer or some functions won't ever occur.

Also, I think you mean protein denaturing and coagulation, not formation.

Having done a few 3 hour boils on single malt beers, I believe the effect to be greater than you might otherwise think. Try a 3 hour hard boil on a scottish wee heavy made with only maris otter for example. Doppelbocks are another contender.

You're right though - I don't mean protein formation. Meant to write break formation but your suggestions are more accurate. Lumpy **** wot falls to the bottom of the kettle.

 

[Bribie G]

One of the things that got me thinking of shorter boils was the quite often marked break earlier on in the boil. At 30 mins plus an addition of BrewBright I seem to end up with a good healthy breadcrumb soup.

Higher gravity beers, agreed, boil the &rse off them :beerbang:

 

[verysupple]

Having done a few 3 hour boils on single malt beers, I believe the effect to be greater than you might otherwise think. Try a 3 hour hard boil on a scottish wee heavy made with only maris otter for example. Doppelbocks are another contender.

Those are good examples of the types of beers I meant when I said in some circumstances a short boil may not be sufficent in accomplishing your goals. Although, the scientist/sceptic in me has to ask, have you ever made the same recipe without the longer than normal boil to compare it with? It might just be the high gravity changing the flavour, aroma and obviously colour. For example, I like a touch of Munich malt in certain beers, but when I use too much it completely changes the character it adds (just the Munich character, the character from base and/or crystal seems unchanged).