Need A Straight Answer!

[rough60]

The mauri yeast under the lids is probably one of the most neutral yeast i've encounted.
I suggest making the same beer at 20deg and 30deg. They both will be ok, but you will notice the difference.

 

[KingPython]

Well this thread certainly delivered a straight answer.

 

[braufrau]

:lol:

 

[Mantis]

:lol:

In a roundabout way

 

[Sammus]

Are you sure that's the right thread sammus?
That thread must be *the* most controversial thread ever posted on AHB. Nasty, acrimonious bile flying left and right. If you miseed it, you might not get that message because it was heavily, and I mean, heavily, moderated.
Now just look at the first post ... it contains an assertian by PP that some of the best beers he's tasted were fermented hot, and he doesn't mention the yeast used. And the first page are certainly not people humbly agreeing ....

so which thread did you mean?

Got me there, I got into the thread when it started and got the impression that people agreed. Should have read it again more thoroughly to see that people are recommending chucking out the yeast under the lid and using a good one, and brewing that at 18C.
OK so it wasn't the best evidence to what i said, but I'll add my personal experiences that as a new brewer with 'stock standard' kits - I had better results BEFORE I had temp control. Note this is coming from drinking megaswill and before I started buying different yeasts and adding any ingedients. Once I started using US56 then My beers were much better controlled than anything brewed previous to that.

I also never claimed it was a great yeast, just that they put there and those instructions on the tin because the results are still acceptable. I thought it was better in my 25C weather than at 18C in the fridge. And in direct response to the OP, no, crawling over 26C is definitely NOT suicide and could very well turn out a decent drop (all things relative).

Im still surprised to hear for Dr 'yeast expert' K that all these high profile labs are pouring their resources into developing and POS yeast that noone wants instead of something remotely useful to a new brewer

 

[KingPython]

Straight answer- Depends on the yeast.

 

[Leigh]

i find it hard to believe that there are so many commercial kits out there that say the same thing. and yet are wrong...

This sounds like the old tyre placard argument...tyres usually say to inflate to about 32psi...every advanced driving school I've been to say 38-40 PSI gives greater grip, better bite, better wear and less road noise...all at the expense of a little comfort...can every tyre company have it that wrong? Why do the tyre manufacturers tell you to run underinflated tyres? Conversely why do the advanced driving schools tell you to overinflate? What is it that the average driver wants?

Compare that to the lid yeasts...how many kits would they sell if people read that they would have to wait 1-2 weeks (or longer), have to bother with temp control etc in order to brew a beer...What is it that the basic brewer wants?

 

[rimrunner]

true.

but off roaders let their tyre pressure down. :lol:
also the tyre companies know half the road users tyres are probably shot. over inflating a worn tyre is pretty dangerous. both industries are catering for the lowest common denominator?

i guess it's not so much that the kit makers are wrong, they have selected a good yeast for the expected purpose. it's just that if you want to change the expected purpose you should think about changing the yeast also.

as king python pithily points out. it depends on the yeast.

 

[paul_h]

First post here, but this is what I came here to find out.
I've tried brewing on and off for 8 years, done about 8 different batches, every single one was absolutely disgusting and undrinkable.
The last time I tried was about 5 years ago, but I'm giving it another go. All my brews were simple condensed can kits with brewing sugar, done in the cooler part of the year (porters and stouts for winter!), all of them done with the yeast in the kit. None of them worked, all my friends who have independantly tried home brew had the same experience.
At first I though it was infection, but there was nothing growing on the suface, things like a good dousing of bleach and a rinse of everything before brewing was tried. It seemed more like the yeast just gave up and didn't finish the job.
other people who did it in warmer climates had the same result.
It seemed like it just did not complete fermentation, it always started up and bubbled up through the airlock quickly, just never completed the job. The brew stayed very green and yeasty (ie "bad homebrew" smell) throughout the entire time it was fermented, no matter for how long, and kept that smell/taste no matter how long the bottles were kept for. Same thing even happened to others at high temps. It always carbonated in the bottles, so obviously the yeast was still there, but I'm at a loss on why I've never had a drinkable homebrew no matter how many times I tried and other people I know have tried.

Unless it was something else that occured for all my home brews, through all my friends homebrews, through all our different proceedures, it's been the same result, crap beer.
I always suspected infection, but now I'm trying to give homebrewing another chance, I realise all the brews started bubbling quickly and never had anything discusting on the top etc, what else could it be except for the yeast?

 

[blackbock]

Sammus may have been on the right track when talking about some kit yeasts being better at higher temperatures.
The following comes from the Mauri 514 datasheet:

TEMPERATURE RANGE
17-30C (62-86F) is optimal for this strain. Beer
structure may benefit from fermentations with this
strain after acclimatising to lower temperatures for
prolonged yeast contact at 10-15C (50-59F).

In other words this yeast is so damn tough it will, with some coaxing, work anywhere between 10-30C!

Pity it tastes like ^&*%...

 

[Mantis]

First post here, but this is what I came here to find out.
I've tried brewing on and off for 8 years, done about 8 different batches, every single one was absolutely disgusting and undrinkable.
The last time I tried was about 5 years ago, but I'm giving it another go. All my brews were simple condensed can kits with brewing sugar, done in the cooler part of the year (porters and stouts for winter!), all of them done with the yeast in the kit. None of them worked, all my friends who have independantly tried home brew had the same experience.
At first I though it was infection, but there was nothing growing on the suface, things like a good dousing of bleach and a rinse of everything before brewing was tried. It seemed more like the yeast just gave up and didn't finish the job.
other people who did it in warmer climates had the same result.
It seemed like it just did not complete fermentation, it always started up and bubbled up through the airlock quickly, just never completed the job. The brew stayed very green and yeasty (ie "bad homebrew" smell) throughout the entire time it was fermented, no matter for how long, and kept that smell/taste no matter how long the bottles were kept for. Same thing even happened to others at high temps. It always carbonated in the bottles, so obviously the yeast was still there, but I'm at a loss on why I've never had a drinkable homebrew no matter how many times I tried and other people I know have tried.

Unless it was something else that occured for all my home brews, through all my friends homebrews, through all our different proceedures, it's been the same result, crap beer.
I always suspected infection, but now I'm trying to give homebrewing another chance, I realise all the brews started bubbling quickly and never had anything discusting on the top etc, what else could it be except for the yeast?

Have your brews tasted off as in an infection. Did you use a hydrometer to determine if the fermentation had finished. How did you clean / sanitise your bottles??

 

[sumo]

Unless it was something else that occured for all my home brews, through all my friends homebrews, through all our different proceedures, it's been the same result, crap beer.
I always suspected infection, but now I'm trying to give homebrewing another chance, I realise all the brews started bubbling quickly and never had anything discusting on the top etc, what else could it be except for the yeast?

A couple of things that have killed brews in the early days for my friends and I was sanitation / sterilisation or the fermenter not being sealed correctly allowing wild bacteria to run rampant.

I have a very strick regime when doing kits and ALWAYS keep to the temperature range. Never had a brew I couldn't drink!

 

[braufrau]

I also never claimed it was a great yeast, just that they put there and those instructions on the tin because the results are still acceptable. I thought it was better in my 25C weather than at 18C in the fridge. And in direct response to the OP, no, crawling over 26C is definitely NOT suicide and could very well turn out a decent drop (all things relative).

Actually ... this thread is convincing me more and more that for the yeast under the lid it may not be such a bad thing to have high T.
AS someone pointed out .. surely the manufacturers know what they're talking about.
Even though we all love US-O5 for its neutral flavour if you let it get a few deg. over 20 youget a bouquet of roses. If you let it get to 28C I'd shudder to think what you'd get!
This great trepidation wrt high Ts may stem from the more expensive yeasts, which probably give a better result if handled properly, are more likely than the cheap stuff to give a rotten result when allowed to reach high Ts.
And sometimes I think that's too our detriment that we don't let, say, Coopers yeast have a bit of freerer reign wrt T.

 

[rimrunner]

if you let it get a few deg. over 20 youget a bouquet of roses. If you let it get to 28C I'd shudder to think what you'd get!

i knew it.
i was certain that a yeast strain would produce a different ester at different temps. by knowing your yeast and your fementation stage you could alter the temp to a specific degree and only get the esters made at that temp level.

that would explain the chimay. damn those monks are smart cookies.

it's beyond me of course and rampant ester production will taste bad of course but esters of themselves are very useful for scents and flavoring. we use them all the time a good brewer would be able to harness this if they had the knowledege.

btw i also think beginner should stick to the low end of the temp pool if they can. but the one recommended for that yeast. B)

 

[EK]

gumbybrew

This thread is a classic example of how many different answers you will get from different brewers when they are asked the same question.

I think that screwtop is right:

Fermentation temps are all about CONTROL.

One of my best brews was one that stayed at 25 degrees for the entire fermentation.

Certainly there are 3rd party yeasts that prefer the cooler temperature to create a better flavour, but the cap yeasts are used by the kit manufacturers so that people can brew at ambient temps and are not put off taking up the hobby by being told they need a brew fridge or something similar. You can still make perfectly drinkable beer by using a cap yeast and brewing at 26 degrees.

If you are having trouble keeping the temperature down (as I do, living in Brisbane) then try using a 100 can cooler with some 1.25L soft drink bottles that have been 3/4 filled with water and frozen. I have been finding this method rather good, I can manage to keep a brew at 19-20 degrees. Let me know if you would like some photos (so you know what to look for) as I have a brew on now and could fire off some happy snaps if needed.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[braufrau]

i knew it.
i was certain that a yeast strain would produce a different ester at different temps. by knowing your yeast and your fementation stage you could alter the temp to a specific degree and only get the esters made at that temp level.

that would explain the chimay. damn those monks are smart cookies.

it's beyond me of course and rampant ester production will taste bad of course but esters of themselves are very useful for scents and flavoring. we use them all the time a good brewer would be able to harness this if they had the knowledege.

btw i also think beginner should stick to the low end of the temp pool if they can. but the one recommended for that yeast. B)

Check this chart out ...
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/belgianchart.pdf

 

[rimrunner]

i love you.

 

[paul_h]

Have your brews tasted off as in an infection. Did you use a hydrometer to determine if the fermentation had finished. How did you clean / sanitise your bottles??

The brews tasted really bad, but I have no idea what an infection tastes like. From all reports, once a brew kicks off and starts bubbling, infections are rare to get? I never had a problem with the yeast taking more than half a day to well and truly be bubbling.
All things were sterilized with bleach,boilingwater and/or sanatizer. Bottles the same, but not relevent as the brew never smelt or tasted good from the fermenter.
As far as hydrometer, I can't remember because the last time I brewed was 5 years ago, I know I used it, but don't know what the readings were, probably close to what it should be.

 

[the_purple_dragon]

FYI,
It's 31 deg in my garage today where my esky modified to take my fermenter is. I put a 2 litre and 1.25 litre frozen bottle in this morning and the temp is holding steady at about 24 deg. I could put more frozen bottle in but I'm happy with the 24 deg.

I'm searching ebay at the moment for cheap fridges to put a thermostat controller in. Should be able to set up for about $100. My local HBS has a couple set up in his shop.

Cheers.

 

[Interloper]

This temperature debate is interesting reading. Adelaide is in a mean cold spell at the moment, and one of my brews wasn't fermenting, temp of the wort sitting at 11C or less.

I put the heat belt on, freshened it up with a quality yeast and in 24hrs it was up to 22c and fermenting nicely.

Now if I pull the heat belt off I run the risk of fermentation stopping too early. As soon as my SG is stable I would have pulled the heat belt off, but I'd be interested if people think I should pull the heat belt before primary fermentation has finished?

The yeast (Danstar Nottingham) is a quality one that can handle from 15-25c according to my LHBS.

So heat belt to start it going and then pull it off for a slower ferment? What would brewers here do?