My Thinking

[Wardhog]

yesterday morning saw me off to the doctors to try reel the bug in before it got too bad, and left the surgery with a little bit of bad news that life is about to get a bit complicated at the age of 34. Bit of a shock, and no more beer for a 'while'. But **** happens doesn't it.
But my point is, I woke up this morning. I'll wake up tomorrow. Some days will be good and others not so good. We carry on, we kiss our wives and kids and smile, we remember the good people we've known in the past and feel lucky for the good ones we know now. Because this is life, it may be short but it's what we make it.
May as well make it smile

Wow, I wish I had your strength.
I keep telling myself things like what you've just said, but it's taken me a lot of years to even acknowledge the possibility of being able to think this way.
I have MS, I was diagnosed 7 years ago. It could come and take my sight, my legs, my ability to do anything, at any time or it might not take any more. It's already made off with my balance, and is working on my physical strength. Coupling this with my only child being born with an intellectual and physical disability, it makes for a pretty grim outlook on life.
You don't know if you'll be able to work this time next year, you worry about paying bills, how things are going to be when (not if) this eventuates.

I am only just starting to use 'if' and not 'when' after this long period of time, and it feels really good.

However, this thread has made me see that as much as I don't want to believe it, things could be worse. Much worse.

 

[Andyd]

Guys, it's nice to run across a D&M thread from time to time.

I couldn't agree more with the assessment that personal responsibility is being erroded all the time - not just with respect to advertising or marketting, but also in terms of regulation and legislation. The whole "Nobody told me I'd break my neck if I dive into this water without first checking the depth" argument drives me stupid, and the success of such arguments is having a severley detrimental effect on our own personal freedoms.

For me there is a survival of the fitest element here - if you're stupid enough to dive in and do break your neck, is it my problem? I don't think so, and I certainly don't think you deserve a 6 figure payout to compensate you for your own stupidity... particularly if it comes at my (even small) expense.

On another note, the whole Freedom of choice argument doesn't wash completely clean with me either, but perhaps I'm being to pedantic about it. My wife is a psychologist who is keen to point out that we always have choices...

I think that in fact we always have options. Whether we would (or even could) choose any one of these options is another matter. For (an extreme) example, someone kidnaps your child, and instructs you to pay them $1M without contacting police, or they;ll kill the child. What are your options? You could:

• pay the ransom
• contact the police
• hunt down the kidnappers yourself
• do nothing

Now, my wife might argue that I have 4 choices here, however would I ever consider the last two? If not, then I have no choice but to select from the first two options.

Can you imaging a scenario where all of the available options are undesirable? Do you make the choice, or does your environment choose for you? Did the ant you stepped on this morning choose to end it's life at that moment? There are some outcomes that you just have no control over, and some which you will just fail to manage risk around.

At the end of the day it comes back to personal responsibility. Forget about teaching people that they can always choose - this might be a useful argument to treat people who feel helpless, but it only goes so far. A more valuable schooling would involve being taught about responsibility, accountability and the conscious management of the risks out environment throws at us.

Gee I hope that all made sense....

 

[PistolPatch]

Very impressive stuff guys and that's all I'm saying.

I'm doing a 60 hour week at the moment and don't stop for a second during those hours. At the end of the day I am drunk with exhaustion. The last thing I should be doing is coming home, having a beer and getting on AHB where I seem to fall into a state of fugue. The amount of time I spent on here last night was truly ridiculous - lol. Some of what I have been writing has also been truly ridiculous!

Anyway, I hope you guys keep writing as you have been above. Email notifications of this topic I will certainly look forward to.

And Screwtop, it doesn't seem like only a year ago eh? But you're spot on. It was this time last year when I was last running on overload and doing a rash of wild posting - lol. Looks like I win the award for AHB's Most Out of Control Poster for March two years running. Someone else can have April's

Top stuff guys - catch you soon,
Pat

 

[Paleman]

Wow. This is a thread and a half.
I'd like to agree with most of the things that have been said here. You have to get every morning and take it as it comes, smile anyway when something doesn't go your way, and thank your lucky stars when it does.
Since I was a kid I've always been one of these people who 'if it can go wrong, it will', but on the same token, always been the one lucky enough to walk away with a second chance and the opportunity to reflect on what it was that I did wrong.
I've only ever been blessed with a small circle of friends (probably due to my abrasive personality), and over the years I've seen every single one of the originals leave us, due to motorbike accidents, drug overdoses, alcoholism and the big C. It's been hard to stand beside so many holes in the ground and look mothers, fathers, wives and children in the eye and try to help them see anything positive in what's happened. At times I've felt like a professional funeral goer, I've even been asked if I was employed by the funeral parlour by one person. :blink:
I'm not a religious person because to me religion and politics are too closely intertwined, but all I've ever been able to say to them is, "Get up in the morning, and thank whoever you thank that you've been blessed with some more sunshine and the chance to live it right."
Personally I've also had far too many opportunities to take my own advice, and have spent more than my fair share of time inside intensive care facilities through motorbike accidents, a serious housefire that should have killed me (3rd degree burns to 50% of me), and other 'incidents' while young and dumb. Divorce at 19, death of a partner and child at 21, you name it, at times I've felt like a crash test dummy for life in general.
Just last weekend, I had a great evening at the Wheatsheaf seeing Kai off, and met a bunch a great characters in the flesh, the first opportunity I'd had to meet most of them. What an awesome bunch of blokes I tell ya, had quite a bit too much to drink, and felt bloody shocking in the morning with a combined hangover, and the beginnings of the flu bug that has laid my household low for the last week, yesterday morning saw me off to the doctors to try reel the bug in before it got too bad, and left the surgery with a little bit of bad news that life is about to get a bit complicated at the age of 34. Bit of a shock, and no more beer for a 'while'. But **** happens doesn't it.
But my point is, I woke up this morning. I'll wake up tomorrow. Some days will be good and others not so good. We carry on, we kiss our wives and kids and smile, we remember the good people we've known in the past and feel lucky for the good ones we know now. Because this is life, it may be short but it's what we make it.
May as well make it smile

For all your lifes experiences domonsura, your awefully short with other forum members, and your opinions are the end and be end of all.

For someone who has been through so much..........you would think that tolerance of others is high on your list of prioritys. I dont find this of you. As you mentioned in your own post

Quote " (probably due to my abrasive personality) "

Change your abrasivness somewhat and you would be a top bloke, with a lot of lifes experiences to hand out, and share. Which would help many.

 

[Screwtop]

For all your lifes experiences domonsura, your awefully short with other forum members, and your opinions are the end and be end of all.

For someone who has been through so much..........you would think that tolerance of others is high on your list of prioritys. I dont find this of you. As you mentioned in your own post

Quote " (probably due to my abrasive personality) "

Change your abrasivness somewhat and you would be a top bloke, with a lot of lifes experiences to hand out, and share. Which would help many.

Hey Dom don't take this too much to heart, one thing nobody has control over is how other people react, take the politicians stance. 30% of em will love ya, 30% of em will hate ya, and the other 30% of em won't give a ****.

 

[Paleman]

Hey Dom don't take this too much to heart, one thing nobody has control over is how other people react, take the politicians stance. 30% of em will love ya, 30% of em will hate ya, and the other 30% of em won't give a ****.

I'm on the fence, Screwtop. I actually love Doms abrasivness. His willinness to fight. For some reason, ive been at the other end of some of his online battles :blink:

As ive mentioned, theres more behind the man. There has been some run ins between him and i, but i wont judge him just yet.

Im the sort of guy that lives day by day. An argument is quickly forgotten.

 

[Batz]

Im the sort of guy that lives day by day. An argument is quickly forgotten.

And a shame more people did not think this way

Best yet!

Batz

 

[Yeasty]

For all your lifes experiences domonsura, your awefully short with other forum members, and your opinions are the end and be end of all.

Im not going to get into a sling match here, but i must say in the short time ive been a member here, Dom is a nice guy.

Dont judge a person by a few posts on a forum, its not worth stressing over.

I agree with all the things said here, currently dealing with a stressful problem atm after a bad "life choice" myself that i can see was through my own fault.

I just wake up and carry on appreciating the people and small things in my life that make me happy. Its no good trying to teach others ive found, unless they choose to have an open mind. All it leads to is frustration in the end which isnt worth the trouble for both parties.

 

[capretta]

well i never! i was actually interested in the zen being thrown around before godzilla and mothra came with the flame war!!

back on the topic, quitting is hard but more so because of the language we use to define it.
Quitting is such a black/white term.

i have "quit" many things in my life but i have found being "quit" is a state of constant flux, a very fluid state where sometimes you are more quit than other times. i have found that i have to practice "quit", constantly, trying to improve on my last effort. even as cravings become less physical and more mental they require different strategies and even if you "fail" at this point you become more familiar with your weakness- you can improve next time.

understanding the fluidity of "quit" and even of life, that there are black/white absolutes only as abstractions, to provide the grey playground where we all live, really helped me.

ok, back to the frivolous iron on tshirt transfer thread!!

 

[Lukes]

As this thread is getting a bit ugly now I would like to quote some Monty Python Life of Brian script as we are approaching Easter.

Crucified Man III: Cheer up, Brian! You know what they say?
Crucified Man III: Some things in life are bad
they can really make you mad,
other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle,
don't grumble, give a whistle!
And this'll help things turn out for the best:
And...always look on the bright side of life,
Crucified Man III: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III: Always look on the light side of life,
Crucified Man III: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III:
If life seems jolly rotten, there's something you've forgotten,
and that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing,
when you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly chumps,
just perch your lips and whistle, that's the key.
And always look on the bright side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucifixioned Man III: Come on!
Crucifixioned Man III: always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III & Crucified Man IV:
For life is quite absurd, and death's the final word,
you must always face the curtain with a bow,
forget about your sin, give the audience a grin,
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
enjoy, it's your last chance anyhow.
So, always look on the bright side of death.
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
Ah, just before you draw your terminal breath,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III:
Life's a piece of ****, when you look at it,
life's a laugh, and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show, people laughing as you go,
just remember that the last laugh is on you!
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
And always look on the bright side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
Always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucifixioned Man III: Come on, Brian! Cheer up!
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
Always look on the bright side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucifixioned Man III: Worse things happens to see, you know.
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucifixioned Man III: I mean, what have you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing, you're going back to nothing,
what have you lost? Nothing!
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III: Nothing will come from nothing, you know what they say?
Crucified Man III & Crucifixion Party:
always look on the right side of life,
Crucifixion Party: [Whistle]
Crucified Man III: Cheer up, you old bugger! Come on! Give us a grin! There you are! See?

BTW: I was just busted whistling at work .

- Luke

 

[domonsura]

You can always rely on Monty P
Whenever I need a laugh I just think of the 'Fat *******' clip.

"Won't you have a mint sir?"
:lol:

 

[dane]

We don't need this stuff posted - sort it out via emails/pm.

Thread clean-up in progress.

OK - keep thread on topic please.

 

[InCider]

I wrote this a week or two ago. Suzi is my mother in law, and my wife is Pam. Her brother died in an car accident before I met her, this piece (errors and type etc) is how I deal with the loss of her brother/son and how I have related the bit of his.. memories. Sorry it's so long.

Sean.

Gday me ole Cock Sparrow.



Dear Jim,

I dont know where to start mate, so Ill tell you why I am writing this to you. I feel I know you, that Im an adopted part of your family and Pam Suzie have done the best job in making me fit in. As men, we have certain code like a brotherhood. A set of rules and understandings that need not be uttered, just obeyed. I hope, and am sure you understand, that I am obeying our creed to the letter. Im your brother. I want you to know Im doing the right thing by you.

Suzie has taken a devastating body blow with your passing, and has taken some time in healing. This is to be expected and she is a beautiful woman who has carried on with life regardless but does take time out to mourn for one of her greatest accomplishments: You. She has adopted me as the man I am, never a replacement for you mate, for you are irreplaceable. I know this just from watching these two amazing women.

Pam, your big sister is kind hearted and generous to a fault. And as you would see if we hung out together, she needs to be tolerant. She took your loss hard too, but with Zander and your mum taking priority for caring and affection, I do believe she has neglected to mourn your loss to the extent she needs to. If you can bro, send her a sign. And one for your mum also.

As you well know now, I have been given some of you belongings. It has been said that Im cheap and that may be true, but it has been part of the healing process for the ladies, a line where emotion goes left and common sense the other. There is a brutal practicality being exercised with some of your things. I say brutal as of the few remaining pieces, there must be a plethora of simple, happy and carefree memories ready to reawaken the pain of your going. If there is something I need, Suzie or Pam never hesitate to say things like: I think Jim has one. It should be in the shed. Take it. If its not being used, take it. It makes sense doesnt it?

I went camping to Rainbow Beach a year or so ago with a mate I used to knock around with in Sydney called Pat. Hes been a good mate, but not the kind of guy to ever own more outdoor kit than a sleeping bag. I needed to make sure he had gear when he got off the plane, and in my preparations, your camping gear was offered. I used lots of your camping gear mate, and Id like to thank you, but I did something there with my mate to show you were not forgotten.

We both wore some of your old flannelette jackets against the cool evening air that may. Nice days, but the contrasting nights were quite chilly. I said to Pat: Man, these jackets were Pams late brothers. They said I could take them camping. Just so you know. How do you feel about that? I expected Pat to come up with some offhand comment in a Roy & HG accent about dead men telling no tales while he knowingly tapped his nose with his index finger, but he just nodded. A nod of respect to you Jim. He understood. We spoke out loud to the stars that night to you, a prayer of thanks, acknowledgement and brotherhood. When a man shares, its his observation to his duty, solidarity with his mates and basic common sense.

We both wore the clothes you had worn, walked in, laughed in and I thank you. I especially liked the grey tartan one.

I mentioned earlier, or rather, asked you to send a sign to the ladies. Did you have a hand in the Rooster that I was given? I think your mum thought so, and if it was your doing, thank you. She got something quite special out of it. Incidentally, the lady who gave me that was one of my staff at work. She wasnt making the grade and she was slated to be managed out. She was given to me to look after; so all the documentation would be in order if we had to go to the unfair dismissal people. I wont lie and tell you I was stoked about it, much the opposite. More work, more time, and the task I had been given was made worse by the news that her future was decided and it was not to be with our company. Her name is June, she is in her fifties and is recently landed from Zimbabwe. A challenge many older people in the workplace face apart from computers is the pace required for some tasks to be completed in. In my workplace, there is a ratio of quality to output that is a stumbling block to many. They focus so much on doing one task right, that they could have done ten tasks in the same time with reasonably quality. And they appear slow when they are conscientious. June is one of these.

I had been made aware that that June had twelve weeks until her probation was up, and in that time dismissal was an option that did not need to be justified it would be a business decision. No explanations necessary. Goodbye.

June got to me. Iron willed, punctual, obedient, and able to accept constructive feedback and use it. That is all well and good. But June was in the Fuhrer bunker and the Russians had just entered Berlin. The mantle of pressure is enough to make most people smell the roses and just quit. But not this determined woman. She was in the for whole ride, and I believe she was willing to take the failure if she was not good enough, but had to do her best nonetheless. She had something banging in her head along with her gritted teeth and that was pride. There was not a snowballs chance in hell that she was going to take the easy road and surrender.

But it is said that the road to hell is paved with best intentions isnt it?

As far as my manager was concerned it was just a matter of collating the burden of proof required so she could be dismissed due to the economics of her sub standard performance.

And sometimes I agreed. I put more time in coaching and educating this lady in the ways and habits of the role she was in than anybody else Id ever managed. It was a very frustrating time for both of us. Sometimes I would be so apathetic regarding her minimal improvement that I was willing so just give up on her and let things run their course.

But she wouldnt just give up. So who am I to play god with someones job when Ive given up? I tell you Jim; she slowly became an inspiration to me. She turned up everyday as if it was her first, and plugged away, no matter how oppressive her situation was.

So I went in to bat for her. Hard. My manager asked me point blank for my opinion as to whether we keep her or not, as much to see what I thought to see if I agreed that she should be let go. See ya June. It was fun etc.

To say he was less that impressed with my answer is an understatement, but the conversation went like this: Sean what do you think about June? Shes not getting any better. What do you think we should do?

My manager is a good guy to work for, but he is manipulative and only asks questions he knows the answers to.

So, knowing this, I replied in the usual fashion, hunting for the answer hes hunting for: Whadda you reckon Pete? Whats made you go one way or the other?.

Pete came straight to the point after that and said that he was close to arriving at a decision, but wanted my honest, unbiased professional opinion. I gave him the honest part: Mate, if it was my business, Id rather have her on side, even with the challenges she has, than some of the high-flyers who only need a pair if chaps to complete their cowboy outfit. I believe she should stay. And Id like her to stay in my team.

Pete thought about this for a while before asking me what chaps were.

A few weeks later he called me into his office for a quick word. This could be anything from a reprimand, a compliment or him just letting you know hed picked the perfect round in the footy tipping on the weekend. As I entered he dispensed with the wave that indicated I should take a seat and looked at me directly, stopping me short of taking a seat. He told me she had passed her probation. I could tell by his brusque manner that his decision would have been different had it not been for my vote of confidence, and if I was proved wrong, would not hesitate in drawing attention to my poor ability to judge character.

Later that day I asked June to come and see me on one of our meeting room we use for private discussions. Being the tease I am I made sure I dispensed with all niceties to give the impression I was steeling myself to deliver a hard truth. Some time later when we were both seated on opposite sides of the table, I slammed down my fist in frustration. The shock on Junes face was palpable, and she was asked why we were there. I leant back in my chair, exhaling as I went, my head shaking from side to side.

June is made of tough stuff. You dont spend your life as a white farmer in the South Africa without having the ability to defend your family and think for yourself. But as I locked my eyes with hers I knew my mixed messages were sending her into a tailspin.

I shook my head for ten more seconds and said: About your probation letting the words hang like Damocles sword I have spoken to Pete, and well, he wouldnt listen. I told him of your great improvements of late, but to no avail. Im sorry.

June managed the conceal most of here emotion as the news she would be shown the door was delivered. Thats one thing I like about June. She takes bad news with dignitary, humility and makes a noticible resolve to move forward. She looked sad. Her eyes said to me thank you for being my champion, thank you for your understanding and thank you for believing in me. Humble to the end, not fighting anger or frustration or disappointment, just humble and grateful for the opportunity she had been given.

By this time Id seen what I wanted to see - just how close she believed she thought she was to being told youre not good enough.

I gave my Cheshire cat grin and stood up. As I moved around to her side of the table, she rose politely, but I asked her to sit. I had more to say and I wanted it to be as friends rather than our rank. We sat shoulder to shoulder in this stuffy little meeting room, looking at rows of desks, cubicles and phones outside as the business hummed on. I looked her in the eye and told June their was three more pieces of bad news: One, Im joking. Two, Youre staying and Three, Youre in my team. Junes relief was immense. She hugged me quickly and composed herself before making excuses as to why she should really have gone. June, you work harder than almost anyone here you can see. I do not care that you are not the best, but you do and try your best. I cant ask for much more. And mate, Im fond of you. Youre tough.

The next day she came to my desk with a package a present the wrapping paper told me. I opened it to find a hand crafted rooster, made from steel and painted in a bronze gloss. Made from scrap on her farm in Zimbabwe by one of her staff. With sharp feathers, tail and beak this cock had the posture required of the head of the finest brood.

Jim, I have shared this detail with you, as I am told they were your favorite animal. The look on your Mums face when I came home with this gift was as though it was a sign.

There are many things I know about you, but many more that I do not. Pam tells me many stories from your childhood that help me define who you are in my mind. The ones I can think of are swallowing a peach seed, eating a cockroach, nearly dropping bricks on nephews with Dave to see the brains come out. I heard of walking to the beach from Kimbarra Court, growing dope in the backyard, and taking Zanders baby seat out and placing it in the boot while cruising around. You and I have some things in common home brewing, growing special plants, playstation, but its the little things that make it special for me. On your computer, apart from the smiley faces, you have an icon called Kill em all let god sort em out. That rocks, I had that badge sewn to a going out jacket in the early 90s. Its part of that adolescent mantra borne of newfound teen machismo. I never grew out of it.

Sometimes (often, probably too often) I wonder about the night you died, the questions unanswered, the tragedy of it all. Its the second guessing all the possibilities of what could be that make that awful event play further on ones mind. Maybe we could have been Xbox mates? Hey? Good Idea. Id have to kick Luke out as and talks rubbish. Its not that hes a bad dude, hes just lacking in esteem, friends and deodorant. He has Zanders best intentions at heart, which is all I can ask of him. Wed play Xbox together with Zanny and Indy. Indys controller doesnt get plugged in, but she pushes all the buttons.

Today I wore your old black singlet I found in the shed. I kept it hidden from your Mum for a while as I guessed it was yours. I felt that if she saw it and assumed what I had, it might upset her. That is something I did not want to do. It was with some old oil rags. I was messing around in our top shed after mowing the lawn one day and when I went to get a rag I found a really big one. And Bonds! And size 16! Score.

Mate, were brothers that never met, never had a chance to make friends, but I am sure we would have. I do my best for your sister, and try not to fight with your mum too much. Sometimes I think she loves a good dust up. We are both trying to be the Alpha patriarch. I am looking after your family as you did when you were here mate.

I hope that by writing this I do not hurt anyone or revive memories that have been put to rest.

You are not a ghost to any of us, and never feel that you are forgotten. Its one of those unwritten understandings we have, that we never forget. I understand you, and I hope you do me. You have played a part in the shaping of our family, and I say our family. You and me. Pam, Suzy and I are raising our children to remember you.

You are, and always will be our Uncle Jimmy.

 

[PistolPatch]

I'm on the phone to Screwtop and we both know InCider and I have never had a phone conversation where we have read all 2,500 words in silence.

We find InCider to be one of the most valuable guys on the forum due to his exquisite humour. His post, like so many others here, shows that there is a hell of a lot more than beer to some brewers.

Couldn't ask for a better post to bump this back on track.

Thanks from your old mates,
Michael and Pat.

 

[bugwan]

Thanks InCider, that's as honest as it gets...

I'm in no position to add to this thread other than to encourage your fine skills as a passionate writer.

I'll enjoy my next Summer Ale in your name...

 

[bonj]

I just don't know how to respond to that, Sean. I'm not ashamed to say that it brought tears to my eyes.