My Mates Want To Pay For Me To Make Beer For Them

[mckenry]

mods will delete this entire thread soon, if they are consistent. I posted up a few years back, that a mate was buying all the ingredients for a double batch and i was making it, keeping half, and half to him. I got free beer for my efforts, not money, yet still the mods removed the entire thread.

 

[WitWonder]

Make a list of equipment you want (march pump, fermenters...), agree on a price per batch for your mates and when they have accrued a debt of equal value to the equipment, they can go and buy it for you

 

[jyo]

It's a bit annoying when you meet someone at a party/gathering and they try your beer or a mate brings someone new around to try your beer and one of the first q's is "Can you brew me a few cartons? I'll give ya like 20 bucks each carton?" Then after explaining the process and time that goes into it, they still don't get it. Not that I would ever accept cash for beer. I can't keep up with my own beer production let alone brewing for others.
I'm sure they are your mates, but I'm with what others have said; teach them to brew. I've got a few of my mates doing kits and steeping grains now and when they stop for a few months, I give them shit until they start brewing again. It gives a person so much more satisfaction/appreciation knowing the process involved.
Cheers, John.

 

[Hatchy]

I've had mates come round & brew at my place. They either bring grain & hops or pay me what I paid for them. It's funny how I'm stoked when people come round & drink my beer but the thought of selling a slab makes me feel a bit ill.

 

[bradsbrew]

Whats the legalities of selling a fresh wort cube? Would you need your brewing premises and procedures checked by food authorities??

Also can you give a mate a carton or keg of beer to take home and drink legally?

Cheers

 

[Hatchy]

Whats the legalities of selling a fresh wort cube? Would you need your brewing premises and procedures checked by food authorities??

Also can you give a mate a carton or keg of beer to take home and drink legally?

Cheers

I believe that everything has to be gone over by food safety dudes if yr selling fresh wort kits but I'm happy to be corrected.

I'm not sure that giving it away would be a problem but I'm wondering why you would.

 

[bradsbrew]

I'm not sure that giving it away would be a problem but I'm wondering why you would.

Oh you never know they might pay me for collecting their mail or something .

I cant keep up my own supply let alone make it for others. And even if I could the price I would want for my effort would make it way over priced.

Cheers

 

[michael_aussie]

It's funny how the OP is concerned/wondering about the "legal" issues, and most replies are about whether or not they would brew for their mates.

From a legal stand-point, if you sell beer you are breaking the law... but if they say nothing .. don't blab... you have 0% chance of being "caught".


on the other issue..... only the OP can know if he is being taken advantage of??
Maybe the OP has heaps of spare time .. loves to brew for the sake of brewing ... and these two mates look after him in other ways??
They have a big boat and take him out all the time ... or they throw big parties.. and make sure the OP is always included... or they have a holiday house they let him use .. or swim in their pool...
who knows.... other than the OP.

My 2c ... if you are happy to brew for them,, and don't feel you are being taken advantage of .... go for it.
Have a discrete talk to your mates about how .... technicially, you could be breaking the law... so they they need to shhhhhhh.

Then go for it.

 

[bignath]

to everyone who has responded to this thread - thankyou!

I agree with everything being said about whether it is worth it. After i posted the original thread, i started to really think about whether i have the time to do it or not.

I have told the people in question that what they are asking me to do is technically frowned upon and they understand completely. Not sure if i am going to go ahead or not, but atleast i know exactly where i stand from a legal point of view, and that way if i do something dumb, atleast i knew where i stood and then can only blame myself.

thinking it may not be worth it in the long run....

cheers for all your contributions guys.

Nath

 

[kenlock]

If a group of mates were serious they could put together a 'brewery' which could cater for all there needs. An apparent example would be Speedie and his pals.

So, if you have a serious, long term commitment then put $ towards an appropriate size ( 100L, 200l , etc) brewing system, and fermentation vessel (and temperature controlled environment).

If all kegging, the only real increase of time is making the yeast starter. (Getting a SS concical may well eliminate this issue.)

Edit: A commitment to 'X' number of brews could be made to 'the brewer' if they 'the brewer' was to be staking more $ than the mates.

 

[Banshee]

I don't make the law, but if its family and friends then you should be ok if they pay for the ingredients. Put some beer nuts on the table and if they give you extra $$ it was to pay for the nuts. It's not a crime to accept a donation. But to intentionaly sell alcohol for a profit without the right license is a crime.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

to everyone who has responded to this thread - thankyou!

I agree with everything being said about whether it is worth it. After i posted the original thread, i started to really think about whether i have the time to do it or not.

I have told the people in question that what they are asking me to do is technically frowned upon and they understand completely. Not sure if i am going to go ahead or not, but atleast i know exactly where i stand from a legal point of view, and that way if i do something dumb, atleast i knew where i stood and then can only blame myself.

thinking it may not be worth it in the long run....

cheers for all your contributions guys.

Nath

If you got together to make beer, then not really a prob..

The TAX man is only going to take interest if you actually sell them your home brew....

A Few points

How will the ATO know ... loose lips sink ships

Will the ATO take action if a group made beer togethor.... not in there interest, as long as it falls within the guidlines

You can always ring the ATO and ask for the Alcohol Industry Group, and speak to them

I actually spoke to them when I was thinking of setting up a micro... found out some very interesting stuff from them..

The Prima Facie case is that the ATO would have to prove that you are producing beer with intent to deny the Gov of tax revenue

You are allowed to produce a certain amount of beer for personal consumption, BUT spirits are prohibited

Basically, the ATO tax by the litre of Alc produced, regardless of what method, Due to the fact that beer on a small scale is not viable to collect, the tax is basically waved


THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE

 

[kbe]

Small story on the subject. Do not know of any details other than what is here.

 

[WeaselEstateBrewery]

I did this for a while, for a couple of people who bought kegs. It's a pain in the a, you end up doing a heap more brewing and it will become a chore rather than something you enjoy. If you are bottling then it will even even worse. You will be seen as a source for cheap beer and your mates will stop buying commercial stuff.

 

[Hatchy]

The key to doing this I reckon, assuming that yr confident that the ATO won't find out, is to be seen as a source of good beer rather than a source of cheap beer. If you charge $60 for 12 longnecks then you won't have every underage kid in the street knocking on yr door asking for a cheap slab & you'll be getting something for yr effort. I'm not condoning illegal behaviour but I really doubt that the people at the ATO are reading this thinking "these blokes are the reason we have a budget deficit.

I've got a mate on his way round now to brew. We don't have a recipe yet so I'm not 100% sure what it'll cost but I've got a suspicion that he'll get change from $30 to take home 2 cubes. That seems like a better & safer way to supply mates with home brew.

 

[wynnum1]

Good idea to brew for your friends and get payed .Try and visit them as much as possible and drink there free beer.

 

[HoppingMad]

Pros:
- You get paid and it could help you invest in new gear.

Cons:
- It's illegal unless you get a liquor license, are set up to pay excise tax (ATO) and have clearance from planning (local council permit for a commercial enterprise in your residential property - some folks like hairdressers are exempt but a small brewery wouldn't be).
- You get a 'business' out of a hobby, which may wreck the fun of it.
- You spend all your time brewing instead of hanging out with your mates, so unless you have the money to upgrade your equipment to large batches - you will defeat the purpose of it in the first place.
- Your mates think they are getting cheap beer, but you haven't put a cost on your time, so you are getting the bad end of the deal as TB suggests.

I have had many people ask about me supplying them with beer, even a restaurant owner. I would love to, but the cons outweigh the pros for me. Am often explaining the 'Cons' to those that ask. But if a few laws change in this country - let me know!

Hopper.

 

[Tanga]

I have had many people ask about me supplying them with beer, even a restaurant owner. I would love to, but the cons outweigh the pros for me. Am often explaining the 'Cons' to those that ask. But if a few laws change in this country - let me know!

Hopper.

Sounds like you love to brew. You should talk the restaurant owner into becoming a 'brewery-restaurant' and giving you a job as head brewer. B)

PS - only half joking. I'm sure there are (TAFE, etc) micro-breweries that he could hire cheap(er) on the weekend and you can make large batches of a few choice brews. I think that may be how the SA Brew Boys started out.

 

[warra48]

Forget about it, don't do it, that's my view.

You are doing all the labour, so you have all the downsides to brewing. You'll make next to nothing out of it. You'll get sick of it as a second job without pay, holidays, sick leave, superannuation, or long service leave.

Your "mates" are getting cheap beer, for no effort, and no risk.

As for the niceties of saying they pay only for raw ingredients, your time, gas, electricity etc, the law generally doesn't look kindly on such sophistry, and is quite willing to look behind such deals.

It's like a bloke visiting an illegal brothel and pretending to make a donation for electricity and laundry costs. Argument won't work. He's still paying for a hooker. Same with your mates, they'll be seen as paying for beer you brewed and sell without a licence.
There are also plenty of blokes who have been conned into working for someone as an "independent" contractor. Again, the law is quite ready to look behind the facade of such deals and consider the "independents" as actual employees. Same with your mates, they'll be seen as paying for beer you brewed and sell without a licence.

And lastly, your mates will be your best mates so long as you supply them with cheap booze. What happens when you want a break, get sick of doing it, are burnt out from putting down 3 brews each week for the last 6 months, or suffer with a cold or the flu etc and just can't brew? Their opinion of you is likely to change at short notice, and they're unlikely to hang around.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Time isn't worth it even if you enjoy it - the ability to produce enough beer for 3 beer drinking adults living in separate (assumed) houses would require an upgrade of equipment. If you BIAB, then large pots and bags and/or a mash tun is in order. If you have a mash tun, then a bigger one is in order.... and so on. So they would immediately have to front up some serious $$ for equipment, then the sheen for them disappears.

And all that, based on you doing the labour for free.

I think about a typical brew day and then triple it, then it would take an entire waking day to produce. Or as above, some nice shiny larger new equipment and a bigger place to store it.

On the tax side of it - I'm a tax accountant, now auditor (but not for the ATO) - their systems are pretty sophisticated. If they find you (and more and more that becomes a possibility), then even if they don't have enough to form a case on that basis (by case, I mean "court case" - nasty effort, even if you win), they'll go through your affairs like a dose of the salts, so you might not get done for excise evasion, but some other evasion. Even if they don't find anything there, just the very fact that they screw with your life for a few months will near on make you suicidal.

From their point of view, call it "teaching you a lesson". They aren't completely ruthless, but they're not far off.

Teach them to brew themselves. If they don't want to, they obviously have the money to pay for nice beer at the bottle-o from a craftie. It's amazing how much you appreciate the process of brewing, when you've been burnt whilst sparging grains, or have made an "average" batch because of some minor flaw. It is a science and unless they are made to do it, they won't appreciate it.