My Brew Shop Guy Is Confusing Me...

[jkeysers]

I went to my brew shop today to pick up a Fresh Wort Kit (at the recommendation of people from this site, I'll brew it up this arvo). Anyway, whilst there, I had my usual chat with the owner of the store. He's a pretty good guy who seems to knows his stuff. I was talking to him about gassing up a keg (for those of you who follow my posts, sorry for yet ANOTHER gas related enquiry), and I told him I was drinking it after its been on the gas at around 95psi for a little over a week. He snorted and laughed and told me I'd been doing everything wrong.

He said, for starters I shouldn't be drinking anything thats been in the keg less than a month. Secondly he said I shouldn't be leaving the gas on it. He said after its chilled down to just put gas on it at 110psi for 5 days, after that to take it off and enjoy. He told me that if I leave the gas on the beer it will continue to take gas and overcarbonate. I told him about balancing which i'd read on here, and he replied I should be taking the gas off it when I got home.

OK. From what I have been reading around here, people have been generally saying its OK to drink from the keg after 1-2 weeks. And also, I have been reading in AHBs 'How to Keg' guide about just putting the gas on at a certain pressure and leaving it til its empty. Have I misunderstood something? Whos right? Whos wrong? I was happy when I thought I could just leave the gas on full time at 95psi and never worry about it again. Now I'm confused. I thought I wouldnt take the gas off it til I'd asked here first.

Finally, I understand that beer gets better with time. The longer I leave it in the keg the better. But at what point should I be leaving it to 'sit' and for how long?
-straight from the fermenter at room temperature?
-straight from the fermenter in the fridge?
-chilled down in the fridge with the gas on it?
I've got this Fresh Wort Kit now, and although it wont go in the keg for a little while yet, I wanna get it right.

Cheers!

 

[Fents]

Theres no rule book on kegging....everyone will have a different method.

Its up tou you to understand the basics and work out your system

Personally i drink kegs 2 days after gassing cause im a pig and cant wait.

Force carbanation or normal carbation, its up to you and how quick you want your beer gassed.

 

[Adamt]

If 90psi over a week works for you, don't change it! Getting your keg system to carbonate right is an art and once right shouldnt be messed with! Did the HBS owner ask you how long your beer lines were, etc? He may need different pressures to you based on his system, and his regulator may be differently calibrated to yours. Ignore his advice if you have a working, balanced system.

If your system isn't leaking, eventually your beer will reach equilibrium and WILL STOP absorbing gas.

Choosing to secondary ferment/cold condition is really optional depending on style. Theres quite a recent topic on secondary fermentation/CCing which you should read.

Long story short: If you have secondary fermented/CCd, as soon as its cool/cold and carbonated it's ready to drink.

Sorry to sound rude; your HBS owner sounds like a kit brewer who has brewed the same few beers with the same method for an extended period of time and is of the firm belief that his advice is gospel.

What style is the fresh wort kit? That will help someone recommend whether to condition before kegging.

 

[Wortgames]

The HBS owner obviously doesn't quite get it. You only need to turn off the gas if it would otherwise overcarbonate (which it will do pretty easily at 90psi of course). If you get your temperature and pressure right it CANNOT overcarbonate - it's physics. Did you ask him if he believes in voodoo too?

A lot of people are impatient and use their own techniques of X amount of pressure for X amount of days. That's up to them. Do whatever works. But if you have the patience and you want the simple life, stick to the appropriate pressure and leave the gas on. Or, do a combination of the two - crank up the pressure and give it a bit of a shake to get some condition into it, then back it off to the appropriate level to let it find its own equilibrium over the next couple of days.

As for 'when to drink' a keg, kegged beer improves for a while and then it deteriorates. Exactly how long it improves for can be anywhere between 1 week (for a simple ale) to 6 months (for an unlagered lager) or even longer (for really high gravity brews).

The best way to learn, is to drink. :beer:

 

[jkeysers]

Adamt - I'm still deciding if 90psi over a week works for me. This is only my 2nd keg. My first was a disaster as I wasn't a member of this forum yet and didnt know what I was doing. So yeah I'm still learning. I'm glad I'm able to leave the gas on it full time. He swore black and blue to me that it would keep taking gas and overcarbonate. Fingers crossed my system doesn't leak. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but I still have another keg to add to it, hopefully its OK too.

I don't know what cold conditioning is. I could take a stab at what secondary fermenting is, but I don't have another fermenter to put the beer into at the moment. Anyway, looks like I got some reading to do!

And don't worry, I don't mind what you say about my HBS guy. I don't know him personally. I guess everyone has a different way of doing things. He just had me worried. Especially about the not being able to leave gas on.

The fresh wort kit is a Brewers Selection Aussie Pale Ale by ND brewing. Hopefully its a good one.

 

[jkeysers]

Thanks WG. I'm going off your chart here, so my life is in your hands. haha. And I stood up for you in that shop too. He just had me doubting myself! I will leave the pressure on 95psi til the keg is empty. That seems about right by your chart. Fingers crossed.

 

[Kingy]

ive found most hbs owners are like, "if u dont do it how im doin it ya doin it wrong" but ive found its just better to work it all out for yourself and do what makes you happy.

same with anything really not just hbs owners thats just life...in my opinion anyway..

 

[paul]

If you were pouring at 95psi you could use you pluto gun as a fire hose.

You are a gassing at 13 psi not 95 psi.

 

[pjwhite5]

Adamt - I'm still deciding if 90psi over a week works for me. This is only my 2nd keg. My first was a disaster as I wasn't a member of this forum yet and didnt know what I was doing. So yeah I'm still learning. I'm glad I'm able to leave the gas on it full time. He swore black and blue to me that it would keep taking gas and overcarbonate. Fingers crossed my system doesn't leak. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but I still have another keg to add to it, hopefully its OK too.

I don't know what cold conditioning is. I could take a stab at what secondary fermenting is, but I don't have another fermenter to put the beer into at the moment. Anyway, looks like I got some reading to do!

And don't worry, I don't mind what you say about my HBS guy. I don't know him personally. I guess everyone has a different way of doing things. He just had me worried. Especially about the not being able to leave gas on.

The fresh wort kit is a Brewers Selection Aussie Pale Ale by ND brewing. Hopefully its a good one.

Hi Chook,
I am also fairy new to kegging , I generally put my kegs into my fridge/freezer that runs about 2.5 degrees C, I have balanced my systen so carbonating pressure is the same as serving pressure and as I like most of my beers around the 2.4 to 2.6 volumes of Co2 and from what I have read on this forum and searching the net I have my system set at 11 PSI/77 Kpa and after approx 4 to 6 days depending the FG of the beer it is good to go. As everybody has basicly said trial and error

Have fun and enjoy brewing

Cede

 

[brendanos]

The only reason I'd suggest for not leaving the gas on once the beer is sufficiently carbonated is to prevent losing an entire bottle of gas to a leaky keg. Kegs aren't perfect and one day your seals WILL go, so it would be quite unfortunate to have a near-full bottle attached to a keg when it finally starts losing pressure to discover a week or two later that your bottle's empty. I'd leave the gas nearby and top up the keg whenever the pressure gets a little light on. This being said, I don't keg my own beer, so feel free to disregard my sentiments!

 

[Keifer]

Yep, don't leave it on 95psi !

I think your confusing psi and kpa, 80-100kpa seems a good ballpark figure.
95psi=655kpa...

 

[Wortgames]

Good point Keifer, I didn't even do the math (I just knew it was high!) 95psi is insanely high and would actually be off the scale on most regs.

95kpa on the other hand is perfectly reasonable, I can't see it overcarbonating at all, so I don't know why this HBS bloke is carrying on.

It won't do any HARM to turn the gas off, it just isn't necessary. Obviously you'd need to turn the gas on again every time you serve, and if your system is tight then there is no advantage to it. I've always left mine connected permanently (I turn it off very occasionally, just to see if I lose any pressure overnight - if I do it's only a tiny amount) and I don't have problems with excessive carbonation or loss of gas.

 

[Keifer]

Onya paul

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Agreed, 95psi would overcarb a cold keg in a matter of hours, not to mention that I wouldn't trust the gas lines we use to even hold such a pressure! h34r:

Listen to WG, he knows exactly what he's on about, balanced systems rock and I've left a carbonated keg for three weeks under the combined serving/carbing pressure and no problem :super:

FWIW, I often get thirsty and carb at high pressure...40psi for 24 hours (after chilling the keg) works quite nicely...but don't forget to release/bring the pressure down before you pour! :lol:

PZ.

 

[Uncle Fester]

.... Secondly he said I shouldn't be leaving the gas on it. He said after its chilled down to just put gas on it at 110psi for 5 days, after that to take it off and enjoy.

I would have thought that 10 psi for a week would be sufficient to carbonate, and 40psi (280kpa) for 48 hours would be enough to crash carbonate it.

110 psi for a week would be hugely overcarbonated (especially if the keg is chilled) I would have thought? :blink:

Festa

 

[Brewer_010]

The only reason I'd suggest for not leaving the gas on once the beer is sufficiently carbonated is to prevent losing an entire bottle of gas to a leaky keg.

Yes I have had this happen with a near full gas bottle....I never leave my gas bottle on even for a couple of hours (unless by accident).

 

[Keifer]

I have left my gas bottle on since i have owned it. Just tighten up your hose clamps and you'll be fine.

 

[Lactobacillus]

I have left my gas bottle on since i have owned it. Just tighten up your hose clamps and you'll be fine.

Not quite... All you need is a slightly deteriorated rubber O-Ring around the gas post, or a dodgy poppet-valve and your gas cylinder will drop its contents faster than my guts after a chilli dinner!
I have had this happen to me once before. It's tragic how a $1 worth of rubber can so easily waste $35 worth of CO2 :blink:
After saying that though, I still tend to leave the gas on, but am a lot more wary about checking the state of the seals and valves on my kegs. BTW... my personal method of carbonating is to gas the keg to 90kPa in the fridge and just let it do it's thing. Once it is carbonated it will not over-carbonate using this method. I have had kegs sit in the fridge attached to the gas line like this for seven months with no over-carbonation problems!
Lacto

 

[tangent]

It's tragic how a $1 worth of rubber can so easily waste $35 worth of CO2

totally agree

 

[Keifer]

I tested my simple system for leaks when i set it up, all new seals for the kegs, new disconnects and hose clamps and it doesn't leak at all. I can see you point tho, it would suck to go to have a beer and have no gas left.
My gas bottle is a very small one, so i'd lose only $20 worth