Move From Biab To Mash Tun - Need Advice On Build

[AndrewQLD]

Neo asked what the differences were, he got what he asked for

Not in his original post or his next one, only when the thread went from being about a mash tun design to what's best BIAB or 3v.
And now I'm doing it

 

[felten]

Ask 5 brewers a question and you'll get 6 different answers!

 

[Silo Ted]

Is 79% mash eff the norm with biab? I agree it's deffinatly nothing to be frowned apon. My mash eff since going full volume boils, hence sparging more than I previously did is 75-80%, last batch was 77%. I'll have to add though that my manifold is pretty half arsed done & sits right along the edge of the MT, so I assume I lose a bit there due to channeling, but it's consistant so I don't feel the need to change just yet, not till I get my bigger MT sorted

Can only speak of my own efficiency since moving to BIAB (3V isn't an appealing method for me anymore) and just looking at my notes from the last eight brews, its been between 78% & 80% without fail. I'm not really of the mind that a better efficiency is required (same as you say), as long as it's consistent. That's without squeezing, but does include a 'mash out' temp raise, which seems to emulsify the remaining liquid. When I squeezed but didn't raise the temp I was getting similar. Next time I will do both and see if I can jack it higher, also maybe do a sparge. But its not a priority, more out of general interest than anything else.

 

[Acasta]

Well I used to BIAB, now I 3v. But thats only due to personal preference. I find it EASIER on a 3V.
Started off with NickJD's method, which was amazing to be able to make AG beer. I got the 19L BigW pot and coffee grinder and away I went, made a few brews, tasted nothing like the kit stuff I was desperately trying to move on from. However, in the end which this method I felt limited and wanted to expand my equipment.
I ended up looking for a bigger pot, and ended up being given a 50L SS pot, which was fantastic. Full volume BIAB, using the 19L pot to sparge in. Fantastic. Still made good beer! However the sparging was really becoming a pain in a small vessel, as well as the large amount of trub left over and other things. I wanted a more efficient system.
That's when I bought a 50L pot to use as my kettle. Upgraded the freebie pot to a mash tun with a SS false bottom that I scored for $30 off ebay. I find this system to work really well for me. I still use the 19L BigW pot as a stove top HLT and on my next batch im going to use my voile bag as a massive hop sock. One day when i get a bigger electric HLT, this pot will still be used in my brewery. This system produces similar if not the same standard of beer as my 19L pot and bag did.

Two reasons really for the upgrades. One, for the more efficient brew day (not mash efficiency) and two, for the fun, creativity and enjoyment of researching putting together ect of the whole thing.

As for your OP question... I use a pot for my mash tun so I can't help you there. However, you can always go big without spending too much by watching sales section and ebay. I've never used braid or copper, but I know SS false bottom works great for me.

As for cleaning a mash tun... Its not ever hard. Just scoop/dump the bulk of the grain and rinse with water, while you boil. I found hand washing the bag to be a real pain tbh.

 

[manticle]

Hi neo:

This is how I started (my tun set-up is the same but in a bigger esky nowadays)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=35595

I no longer boil on a weber in two teeny pots either.

I followed yardy's instructional on how to make a copper manifold - found here: http://www.homebrewdownunder.com/index.php...amp;topic=948.0

There are many ways - copper manifold, steel braid, round tun, rectangular tun etc.

No need to worry about which system makes better beer. If you're happy with your BIAB beers, keep making BIAB beers. If you're not, there's something else you need to change, rather than the bag. However, if, like many of us you like tinkering and making things and have the space then have fun and do it. Won't make better beer by default, won't necessarily be easier to clean etc, etc. Two systems to the same end.

 

[Deebo]

Regarding cleaning the bag.
I just hang it on the line and spray with a hose then leave to dry?
Would think spraying the mash tun out wouldn't be a whole lot easier?

Saying that I have only done 5 BIAB and do have a spare esky I have thought about trying to fit a manifold or screen to just to give it a shot but haven't got motivated enough to figure out a tap fitting or source bits for manifold.

 

[manticle]

BIAB vs 3V vs HERMS vs Braumeister vs Janine's big underpants = boring argument, done to death, with no meaning at the end of it.

Concentrate on advice answering the first question (designing a tun) and let the OP make up their own mind on how to proceed.

Not solely directed at you deebo but I agree with Andrew QLD. Let system wars be fought, for fun and with tongue in cheek at Grain and Grape and Babbs demos and ANHC.

 

[Deebo]

Having never tried 3v I wasn't trying to say either was better just wondering on his initial posts statement about "moving to a Mashtun to save all the mess of the bag."

I am also interested in mash tun design as stated as have been thinking about giving it a shot but I wouldn't think it would be any easier to clean (though probably not any harder either).

 

[manticle]

As I said - not directed at you. Just the inevitable turn that this thread seems to be taking and that any thread that even mentions BIAB and 3V together seems to always take (or chill/no chill, gay vs straight, bruce Lee vs muhammad ali, scorpion vs tarantula, Godzilla vs King Kong, Catwoman vs Wonderwoman etc etc etc etc etc etc).

Catwoman wins by the way.

 

[bignath]

Catwoman wins by the way.

I feel a poll coming on.....

 

[Bribie G]

When I was looking at All Grain in 2008 I was scouring Bunnings for the most suitably esky myself and only went into BIAB when it occurred to me that an urn could maybe be used for BIAB (I was going to get one anyway as a HLT). In fact in those days (only 3 years ago ) there was even a lot of discussion the subject of "is an urn possible" as urns were just "emerging" as a BIAB tool. If it wasn't for that nagging little question about the urn I'd probably be 3-V ing myself. As a BIAB'er I'd never say it's far superior - or inferior - to any other system - to me it's Fords n Holdens, Petrol n Diesel, Blondes n Redheads.....

However like Deeb my ears pricked up at the "bag mess" statement in the OP, and that sort of thing pushes buttons along the lines of the posts you often get like "I'm going to try BIAB then later go onto AG". That's why I did a tongue in cheek sort of comment in response.

Edit: Manticle thinking along same lines

 

[manticle]

I feel a poll coming on.....

I don't need a poll. I just want to watch.

 

[Greg Lawrence]

Hey all,

Have done a few BIAB brews in the past and am now looking at moving to a Mashtun to save all the mess of the bag.

I am by no means any expert, but would like some recommendations on mash tun design from those who have done it in the past.

Going to buy an esky of some variety. Any recommendation on shape & size, just for single batches, Rectangular, square, round? Also what type of extraction method inside? Stainless braided hose, copper manifold, ss false bottom?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Hi Neo

You asked the question of shape and size.
I would reccomend trying to get an esky that is big enough for single and double batches, but try to get that volume using height ratheter than length and width.
I have 1st hand experience in this from a recent club brewday where 2 of us had the same brand eskys and same false bottoms (beerbelly) and the grain was cracked by the same mill. Both eskys were roughly the same volume and had the same amount of grain.
The taller esky got far better efficency that the long flat esky. I put this down to the geometry of the esky. I believe that in the long flat esky there were alot of sugars left behind as there was not as much flow through the grain bed.
Something worth considering.

That said, I would go for around 60-70L, but tall.

Greg

 

[Deebo]

That said, I would go for around 60-70L, but tall.

Greg

Just out of curiosity.. are there disadvantages to taking it to the extreme?
For example say a 3m tall insulated pvc pipe? (other being pretty annoying to fill and recirculate etc)

 

[zebba]

Is it going off topic to turn this into false bottom vs manifold

re: mash tun size, op needs to state what gravities they are aiming at. I use a 40lt techni ice and I push it to the limit when I brew 1.100+

 

[manticle]

Size wise: I started with 26 L which can push out a single batch of 1060-1070 beer with mash out and be pretty much full. I still use that tun sometimes but also use a 50 L tun to push single batch and 1.5 x batch. Could probably double batch on it if I had a bigger boiler - around 35 L post boil is close to my maximum avoiding boilover.

Too big and you may lose heat from headspace/deadspace. There may also be issues with fly sparging but I don't fly sparge so I'm not sure - just something that is worth checking if that's what you intend to do.

Too small/just big enough - you may need to upgrade and therefore spend money and effort twice rather than once.

 

[kelbygreen]

lol 3m high pvc. I guess the hight does count as you say it has to go threw more grain to get to the bottom from the top and also it should have less dead space so that is also helping. I know losses arnt counted in efficiency but a loss is a loss and means more grain is needed to fill the loss.

I like a mush tun better then BIAB. Yes brew day is longer but I dont mind. But I guess if I done full volume BIAB then it would of been better but doing maxi was a pain and was taking me as long to do then a brew with mashtun. plus I had 95% the gear to make a mashtun so didnt take much to get it all together.

 

[Greg Lawrence]

Just out of curiosity.. are there disadvantages to taking it to the extreme?
For example say a 3m tall insulated pvc pipe? (other being pretty annoying to fill and recirculate etc)

I would think that gravity may go against you if you go too tall. It may put too much pressure on the grain bed causing a compacted grain bed which would cause a slow runnoff and possibly poor extraction.
That said, Im no physics expert.

 

[booargy]

I have used a few ideas of this site to make mine. I used a 50L keg. cut the bottom out (tony) the cutout can then be used for a false bottom (yardy) I have cut the spear Bracket off the fitting and welded a stainless bolt on to hold the false bottom down. A 3/4 compression fitting is welded to the original keg fitting which goes to a tap. this works well.
I am in the process of changing the outlet with a machined fitting welded to the keg fitting(the first was welded in crooked so tun wouldn't sit straight with hard plumbing).
I got all the pieces from cutting the keg up except bolt and fittings. No photos which would make it easy to understand.

 

[felten]

BIAB vs 3V vs HERMS vs Braumeister vs Janine's big underpants = boring argument, done to death, with no meaning at the end of it.

Concentrate on advice answering the first question (designing a tun) and let the OP make up their own mind on how to proceed.

Not solely directed at you deebo but I agree with Andrew QLD. Let system wars be fought, for fun and with tongue in cheek at Grain and Grape and Babbs demos and ANHC.

I don't see anywhere above where someone said either system made better or worse beer, just people correcting the fallacy that BIAB has an inherent efficiency limitation.

Each system has it's pro's and con's, and if the OP wants to know what they are, then I don't see how answering that is a problem.