Missed Flame Out Hop Addition

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a_quintal

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Hi i'm just finishing Ross's nelson Sauvin Summer Ale. Everything went fine until once i'd finished chilling that I realised i'd missed the 30gm flameout hop addition. :(

Anyway i was thinking if tomorrow after i've pitched maybe I could steep the hops in some near boiling water and throw the liquid in the fermenter. Then once in secondary I could dry hop too.

Please help save me from my ridiculous mistake.
 
Have a quick search for hop tea, i havent specifically used Nelson Sauvin but have had good success with cascade and amarillo.
 
Aye a hop tea is the closest you'll get to replicating a flameout addition
 
so just make it up in say a 500ml solution and soak for 20mins? then just add it straight. think i should follow up later with a small dry hop addition or is this over kill?
 
French Press.

get yourself one of these 2L is a good size;
executive_coffee_plunger1.jpg

If you're using pellets they'll hydrate and blow right up. Best for flowers or plugs.

Put hops in the lunger. Pour in a litre of boiling water on top of the hops. Let it sit for a minute or 2 with the lid on. Press the plunger, then pour in the liquid to the fermenter. Best to do it after bulk of primary fermentation has ceased, say 3-5 days in from pitching. This will lock in some great flavours and aromas.

:icon_cheers:
 
French Press.

get yourself one of these 2L is a good size;
View attachment 42814

If you're using pellets they'll hydrate and blow right up. Best for flowers or plugs.

Put hops in the lunger. Pour in a litre of boiling water on top of the hops. Let it sit for a minute or 2 with the lid on. Press the plunger, then pour in the liquid to the fermenter. Best to do it after bulk of primary fermentation has ceased, say 3-5 days in from pitching. This will lock in some great flavours and aromas.

:icon_cheers:

wow looks great. So it'll be o with my pellets because that's all i have?
 
Yeah it'll be fine with pellets... They'll just absorb a bit more water. So good to hav a couple of liters on hand. A full kettle would be fine.
 
So does the hop tea have a particularly different flavour/aroma profile from dry hopping?
 
So does the hop tea have a particularly different flavour/aroma profile from dry hopping?


I've just had a search around for a post by Thirsty Boy in regards to French Pressing and what heat does to hops... some scientific mumbo jumbo i like to think makes sense to me but doesn't really.

Something a bit like this, but goes into a lot more technical detail;

Except the heat itself causes chemical changes to the hop oils - so the flavour and aroma is different in a beer that has had cube hops added. Its still there, and reasonably strongly - but it has a different character to late kettle hops, a different character to hop tea hops, and a drastically different character to dry hops.

French press hopping is about the most aggressive way to get hop aroma compounds into your beer. It emulates the properties of a hopback quite closely, by using heat to dissolve out the aroma compounds - but then very rapidly chilling the "tea" down so the effect of the heat on the chemical compounds is minimised along with volatilisaton - and you would of course add your tea after the majority of fermentation is complete to avoid blowing all your aroma out the airlock... thats one of the key reasons for using a hop tea.

I put hops in almost all of my no-chill cubes where I am looking for a strong aroma component... and I also frequently use Ultra Late Hops with a French press... cube hops give a great deep long lasting aroma and an especially profound hop flavour - but for sheer punch in the nose hop-back style aroma, the hop tea is distinctly more effective.

TB

essentially and obviously all varying techniques for getting hops into your beer are going to give you different profiles. I don't think any 2 techniques are going to give the same results.

I'll keep searching - French Press + Thirsty Boy... but there's that much out there it's difficult to nail the exact post i'm talking about.
 
Very helpful. I notice you're doing a LCPA, and i'm going to do one soon - so helpful to know how to maximise the aroma.
 
Personally I'd just be dry hopping with the flame out addition now that you've missed it. Just add the hops once the ferment is finished.
I'm not a lover of the french press method.


Cheers Ross
 
I like hop tea, I don't french press. Hops into boiling water then tip the lot into the fermenter...hybrid french press, dry hop,

its a dry french half press.

Easiest thing to do would just dry hop. I don't like dry hop personally but it works ok I guess.
 
thanks really interesting info guys. im gonna do the dry hop i think. maybe do some experimenting after that.
 
thats too funny! nice one :lol:

:D Sometimes i read stuff on here an my little brain gets a little weary;


Actually I think it's this post... i had a re-read of it and it's not as "mumbo jumbo" as i first thought;


I'm not 100% certain what you mean. But I will try to clarify.

I am not talking in any way about bitterness or ibu yield. That's a separate issue. But the aroma bearing compounds of hops are, absolutely, there is no debate in any of the brewing science - affected by heat. The hydrocarbon fraction, which is the dominant fraction you obtain from dry hopping, is to a huge extent, removed by volatilization within moments of hops being put into boiling wort... The stuff that isn't driven off is to a large extent changed by heat and heat driven oxidation in hot wort. The non hydrocarbon fraction of the hop oils, is also, but to a lesser extent driven off in a boil and changed by heat.

The traditional fine/noble aroma associated with german lagers and other late hopped beers, are primarily from the oxygen bearing portion of the aroma compounds, which is able to stand the heat. Ergo the reason that you still get a subtle, but long lasting and very fine aroma, from adding noble hops even at 60mins.

Very late hopping, as in whirlpool hops/flameout hops... Still lose almost all their hydrocarbon fraction - but a bit survives, and a lot more of the oxgen bearing fraction not only survives, but is unchanged by the heat, than if the hops had been boiled for any length of time. So a less subtle and smooth aroma, but stronger.

In a hopback (and hop backs have been being used for a very long time, so it's hardly a development of modern US brewing) the hops have a very, very short contact time with hot wort, so only a very small amount of
volatiles are lost, but enough are, and there is enough contact with heat to drive off and change some of the harsher more grassy astringent compounds... Then it's all cooled down fast in a heat ex. Even less subtle and stronger again. You get a big whack of aroma out of hop back beers... Hop backs are the best of both worlds if you are looking for sheer volume of aroma... I think even more so than dry hop. If what you want is big aroma, go a hopback.

Dry hopping slowly dissolves/diffuses out all the aroma compounds in the hops... But you are talking hops that have never been exposed to high temperatures.... So the actual chemicals in there are at least a little different too. Many of the compounds aren't all that soluble in cold wort and never make it into solution. But, you do get to retain, unchanged and un volitalised, all the hydrocarbon fraction. So you keep all your myrcene and caraphylene and fanescene etc etc. And they are punchy enough so they tend to dominate. But you also keep a lot of the harsher, more unpleasant compounds too, so it can be easy to overdo dry hopping and lose the good in the bad.

Hell, there was another thread recently about warming your hops up, where a German trained brewer though that hops straight out of the freezer should be allowed to warm up to room temp before use to allow volatiles to escape, cause they are bad .... Or you could do the opposite like an american IPa brewer and work your arse off to pile in as many as you can and keep every last bit.... Cause they are so good.

What sort of organoleptic experience you are looking for, should dictate where you apply your hops. If you just want more hop aroma - use more hops at the place you usually do. If you want a different character of hop aroma, then you look at technique. But if you think you can replace a late boil hop with a dry hop and it's going to be the same thing... Well - it isn't. Or you can just go wild and put em in everywhere - and that has it's charm too.

So, like i said, I wasn't really sure about the point you were making/question you were asking... But that's what I have learned about how hops work from an aroma perspective. Hopefully I have cleared up anything I didn't express clearly before.

TB
 

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