March Pump 809 Bulk Buy

[Online Brewing Supplies]

haysie.. beerbelly 809's are $290+

$299 at grain and grape...

where are you pulling 809's for $250?

Remember G&G and Beerbelly have to turn a profit to stay in business! karl gets paid, doesnt matter if he sells a pump, they just cut out the middle man.
GB

 

[technocat]

I got a quote two months ago $260 incl. GST and freight to Tassie from the distributor in Melbourne

www.processpumps.com.au/

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

So going on Beersnuts price he was quoted, looks like Beerbelly has a 11% profit margin.Not real flash, and he has to stay in business.
Dont take this all the wrong way, Im not against bulk buys, I might even upgrade my impeller on this buy, but some people out there think "all retailers" are making a fortune on their products. Do the maths . If it cost a few dollars more support your local supplier he likes to eat as well.
GB

 

[technocat]

GB: I couldn't agree with you more and a lot of retailers out there are hurting, however if a group of brewers go to Process Pumps and give a substantial order (say 20 pumps) then one would expect to receive a substantial reduction per unit price given the margin they are working on. Most of us know how the system works and bear in mind HBS are not in the business of selling pumps, I would see it more as a service to their mainstream business. I may be wrong but a HBS would be lucky to sell a handfull of March Pumps in a year as they are a big ticket item and are only included in the Home Brewers wish list well down his list of priorities in getting his/her gear together as you can still brew beer without a march pump. The only flaw I see with this bulk buy is that to score the best price the Distributor may want to consign the order to one delivery point rather than all over the country.

Cheers

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

GB: I couldn't agree with you more and a lot of retailers out there are hurting, however if a group of brewers go to Process Pumps and give a substantial order (say 20 pumps) then one would expect to receive a substantial reduction per unit price given the margin they are working on. Most of us know how the system works and bear in mind HBS are not in the business of selling pumps, I would see it more as a service to their mainstream business. I may be wrong but a HBS would be lucky to sell a handfull of March Pumps in a year as they are a big ticket item and are only included in the Home Brewers wish list well down his list of priorities in getting his/her gear together as you can still brew beer without a march pump. The only flaw I see with this bulk buy is that to score the best price the Distributor may want to consign the order to one delivery point rather than all over the country.

Cheers

Yeh I know, its the way things go, I dont stock the pump because there really is not a big enough demand and if I did order one in for a customer it would only be a service and not a profit maker.I can see if the pumps have to be posted on, then they will be substantially more due to Aussie posts charges.This has to be factored in.Still my impeller should not cost much to send.
GB

 

[SJW]

Hey GB,
I understand what your saying and I have become an advocate for supporting local HB Shops, even though I have been guilty of participation in bulk buys in the past. But anyway my question is to you and I have also put it to Mark (MHB) is instead of banging on about all the bulk buys on the site, like the March Pumps, flasks and grain ect, why don't you retails just do a one off bulk buy every now and then? I understand that you can't really and should not complete wholesale prices but (IMO) a bulk buy is not always about price, its also about availability. Any bulk buys I have been it have been for stuff Mark did not supply at that time. Since then Mark does a Wyeast order per month, and even though he does not make much on each sale its still stock he does not have to hold and maybe sell for less than cost when it gets old. I reckon if a retailer started this thread they would of gotten then same number of orders even if it was a couple of bucks more.
But I can understand why a retailer would not want to go to all the hassel of doing a BULK ORDER if theys minimal profit in it for him.

Steve

 

[seravitae]

I agree with what's being said.



What I have issues with is that Karl is recieving some... less-than-professional negative emails from distributors who have found out about our bulk-buys. The bulk buys are naturally cheaper than the odd quantity 1-3 sales that most brew stores would do, yet they fail to understand that quantity purchase = discount. Thus, he is receiving banter from HB companies threatening to move sales elsewhere if they do not get a piece of this action.

Honestly, when karl gets back to me, it may be, that because of a few whingers out there, the bulk buy may be handled indirectly through one of these subsidary distributors.And seeing as these companies appear to be whinging about not being able to recieve such a good price on these pumps for none other than pure greed, it only follows suit that future bulk buys may be more costly due to this factor.

We can only hope that if a distributor is chosen to handle this bulk buy and any future ones, that they are fair and reasonable in understanding.

If they aren't fair and understanding, then in protest I will get an ABN, purchase pumps ex tax and sell them at prices that are equal to respectable companies prices, or if none exist, I will sell them at cost price, solving the problem alltogether. If there's no provit involved, those with silver-lined pockets cant' load them up any further, so they will be deterred from stocking the item.

 

[Maple]

What I have issues with is that Karl is recieving some... less-than-professional negative emails from distributors who have found out about our bulk-buys. The bulk buys are naturally cheaper than the odd quantity 1-3 sales that most brew stores would do, yet they fail to understand that quantity purchase = discount. Thus, he is receiving banter from HB companies threatening to move sales elsewhere if they do not get a piece of this action.

Is this de-ja vu, or am i thinking hops again.... FFS. I support the LHBS, and some online HBS's, BUT... let the customers decide, and let it all fall out in the wash. The HBS's need to RAHAHB. Agree they need to eat as well, and i'll throw my support and funding in all sorts of directions, but seriously, unprofessional emails and claims on profit sharing (purely heresay, of course) is just not on.

my $0.02.

 

[seravitae]

that was so acronym-tastic that i have no idea what you just said. :huh:

 

[Maple]

yeah, prolly one too many too soon....I love working from home!

 

[seravitae]

haha, lucky you! 16 hour day for me, so i won't be able to have a coldie until tomorrow night..need to start working from home!

 

[Ross]

From a retailers perspective I can understand their retail network's disatisfaction.
I have only contacted Process Pumps once, many moons ago, it was at the time of the 1st bulk buy to see what sort of deal I could do to hold some in stock.
I was offered the same price as the bulk buy, so there was little point in me buying any stock as I'd be behind their direct price (after delivery) before 1c of profit, & to this day we haven't stocked them. Their price was not really even for a "bulk buy" as they left their price open to anyone that mentioned AHB & they delivered direct at the same price as they'd supply their retail network. IMO Process Pumps, as the national distributor, should at least have a volume discount structure that supports onsellers as well as providing a discount for "bulk buys" off their retail pricing; but the system as it stands (unless it's changed) has quite understandably upset their distributors & has certainly put me off stocking their products.


Cheers Ross

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hey GB,
I understand what your saying and I have become an advocate for supporting local HB Shops, even though I have been guilty of participation in bulk buys in the past. But anyway my question is to you and I have also put it to Mark (MHB) is instead of banging on about all the bulk buys on the site, like the March Pumps, flasks and grain ect, why don't you retails just do a one off bulk buy every now and then? I understand that you can't really and should not complete wholesale prices but (IMO) a bulk buy is not always about price, its also about availability. Any bulk buys I have been it have been for stuff Mark did not supply at that time. Since then Mark does a Wyeast order per month, and even though he does not make much on each sale its still stock he does not have to hold and maybe sell for less than cost when it gets old. I reckon if a retailer started this thread they would of gotten then same number of orders even if it was a couple of bucks more.
But I can understand why a retailer would not want to go to all the hassel of doing a BULK ORDER if theys minimal profit in it for him.

Steve

SJW I never bang on about bulk buys, never will.Cant be bothered .I did offer bulk buy Wyeast but not a lot of interest , being on the wrong side of the planet doesnt help.As for retailer stopping bulk buys .I would be looking at retailer who stand to lose the most, the bigger players.Im sure if you ask the right people you will find out who they are.If I threatened a supplier they would just laugh at me :lol: Im all for bulk buys, what do you want ?
GB

 

[seravitae]

I think this is what they are trying to fix up for future bulk buys, trying to maintain a happy retailer network and a happy customer network.

For what it's worth, for instance, if they selected an outlet like yours, Ross, to handle a bulk buy, i would be really happy spending 20 or 30 more knowing that the profits were going to you. Mostly because I know that regardless of your state of satisfaction (or disatisfaction) with how process pumps handle things, you would be diplomatic and respectable about it, like i have seen you with all customer sales, and as you have shown here behaviorally.

I seem to have the feeling though that a few bad eggs are spoiling the lot, which is unfortunate.

Perhaps regular stocking is not worth it, or not interesting enough, but I would encourage you if you wish to be proactive about mediating this situation , to perhaps consider speaking to PP about becoming a bulk buy manager and hold a bulk buy every 3 months? I am sure you would get the numbers, and perhaps this would allow PP to regulate prices more fairly while ensuring you get a decent cut.

 

[Maple]

I hear ya Ross, and fair decision on your part. I don't fault the manufacturer for offering this pricing to the groups past, as there has been quite a good volume going through. Not sure how many pumps a retailer would 'on-sell', but I would think comparable. In this day and age, it's going to be harder for the 2nd and 3rd line retailer to do business as people take advantage of the ease of communication and organization, but if, and only if, the claims that retailers were having a go at the 1st line distributor for 'offering' this price, that's not kosher in my book.

ps (read: disclaimer to AHBAgain, these are my personal views and do in no way represent those of the broader community here, that shares so much info to the bettering of the hobby/craft/addiction.

the humble views of this poster brought the product of his passion.
Maple

 

[domonsura]

I wasn't going to say anything, but some of the comments on here are not just naive - they're delusional and stink of a selfish "me me me" attitude that has become rampant on this forum at the expense of what was not too long ago the very best resource you could find.

I'm fairly confident in saying that I charge bloody fair prices for everything we stock - most of the time considerably under what others charge, and that's at the cost of sacrifices that both myself and my family have made for some years and continue to make in the name of looking after customers and providing a better deal. (ie: not drawing a wage for the last 4 years...........) I'm not the only one who has made considerable sacrifice to do this, I know of others around the country who are doing it real hard at the moment.

I have the 'luxury' of keeping this pump in stock simply because I use them regularly on the breweries I make. If this wasn't the case, I probably wouldn't bother to stock them at all because of their cost and the bulk buys that happen that simply destroy the market for the product. It is true and fair to say that bulk buys can and do make things much harder for your local HBS - I had 3 orders for pumps that I had already pulled into stock cancelled without warning because of the last bulk buy......fair? no I don't really think so. The result? Less cashflow to be able to further broaden the stock range to be able to offer more, until they sell because that's another $600-700 of my cash sitting on the shelf there, costing me more for every day they do.
I'm not sure if the references to hearsay about someone tryng to stop bulk buys is related, but I'm not ashamed at all to say that when the prices for the last pump bulk buy were posted on here, I spoke to Greg Moorhouse (manager at process pumps) simply so I could ask to be supplied the pump at the same price at least as was being made available to AHB members so we could continue to make them available at all...and I also questioned the good business sense of shafting the people who work hard to try and sell this pump into this market at a low margin.....see, the funny thing is that with both of the last 2 bulk buys, AHB members were being offered them $15 cheaper than we could buy them at for the shop regardless of numbers...and this has now happened twice in a row. The price for the bracket was also lower, as was the cost of having a plug put on.
Now I in no way asked for or implied that I wished the bulk buys to stop, all I asked for was the same price in consideration of the deal Karl had offered to all and sundry. I am aware of the fact that Karl is just trying to do a good turn for AHB'ers - that's great...for those who get one of the pumps at a cheaper price..but in the real world that's not how the wholesale supply model works and this kind of thing results in higher prices all round for everyone else, and less circulation of/education about the product. I've spent sh*tloads of time talking to people about and helping people with these pumps in the shop, and what a kick in the guts it was to have a couple of the local guys spend that time squeezing me for information on how to set it up etc etc etc, and then cancel their orders at the last minute leaving me holding the bag. All for a grand total of 11% margin or $26.40(yes GB, you were right on the money). Compare that to the over $2000 a month that we pay for rent & outgoings and it doesn't seem much worth it does it?

A clever person could easily see that the people involved in the bulk buy get a small win, but the hundreds of other home brewers that wander into HBS's around the country don't - because they won't see the pump at all because it won't be in stock..............so a few win but the vast majority lose lose lose...........including the HBS owner and their family.....
So go on, sell your local HBS out to save $10 or $20...but don't expect them to be there when you need something else. In today's financial market, they just may have gone belly up or decided that it's no longer worth working 60-80 hour weeks to try and put food on the table.....

Quite simply put - We the HBS's NEED YOU the customer in order to survive. Unless you want to HAVE to do bulk buys to get stuff at all, you had better think about the fact that the only reason half the products available to you ARE available, is because some of us have put our necks, homes, marriages etc on the line and made sacrifices to do so. THINK about it. It's about time someone did.
Anyone who thinks HBS owners get rich is fooling themselves. (Well...maybe a Brewcraft shop owner might.......but then you'd pay $450 for a pump from them if they stocked it ... )
Support your local. We depend on you.

I'm sure there will be those who will try and crucify me over these comments - so be it. They are the truth, and it's about time someone shattered this myth that us HBS's are ripping you all off and laughing our way to the Bahamas........

Good to see GB and Ross speak up too.......I know Ross has copped lots of crap that he doesn't deserve in the past....but has anyone thought about how much of his own money he has tied up, how much work he does, and how many products he has made available by doing so? It's all relative.

 

[haysie]

Boo Hoo

He is the national distributor for that product and has no claim to look after retailers.

Will CB, G&G , Beerbelly buy 20 pumps in one hit, no consignment, money is in the bank?.
The problem i see, is retailers whom think they have some god given advantage over "the people", and then attack the wholesaler whom is selling wholesale.

Perhaps some retailers need too get off their arse and grow their business. i.e buy a shite load of pumps!!!!!!!!
Brissybrewer did it with the mills!

edit, agian reading the dom post, why the hell should you get a better price than 20 customers paying NOW. Retailing isnt a way its a choice.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I wasn't going to say anything, but some of the comments on here are not just naive - they're delusional and stink of a selfish "me me me" attitude that has become rampant on this forum at the expense of what was not too long ago the very best resource you could find.

I'm fairly confident in saying that I charge bloody fair prices for everything we stock - most of the time considerably under what others charge, and that's at the cost of sacrifices that both myself and my family have made for some years and continue to make in the name of looking after customers and providing a better deal. (ie: not drawing a wage for the last 4 years...........) I'm not the only one who has made considerable sacrifice to do this, I know of others around the country who are doing it real hard at the moment.

I have the 'luxury' of keeping this pump in stock simply because I use them regularly on the breweries I make. If this wasn't the case, I probably wouldn't bother to stock them at all because of their cost and the bulk buys that happen that simply destroy the market for the product. It is true and fair to say that bulk buys can and do make things much harder for your local HBS - I had 3 orders for pumps that I had already pulled into stock cancelled without warning because of the last bulk buy......fair? no I don't really think so. The result? Less cashflow to be able to further broaden the stock range to be able to offer more, until they sell because that's another $600-700 of my cash sitting on the shelf there, costing me more for every day they do.
I'm not sure if the references to hearsay about someone tryng to stop bulk buys is related, but I'm not ashamed at all to say that when the prices for the last pump bulk buy were posted on here, I spoke to Greg Moorhouse (manager at process pumps) simply so I could ask to be supplied the pump at the same price at least as was being made available to AHB members so we could continue to make them available at all...and I also questioned the good business sense of shafting the people who work hard to try and sell this pump into this market at a low margin.....see, the funny thing is that with both of the last 2 bulk buys, AHB members were being offered them $15 cheaper than we could buy them at for the shop regardless of numbers...and this has now happened twice in a row. The price for the bracket was also lower, as was the cost of having a plug put on.
Now I in no way asked for or implied that I wished the bulk buys to stop, all I asked for was the same price in consideration of the deal Karl had offered to all and sundry. I am aware of the fact that Karl is just trying to do a good turn for AHB'ers - that's great...for those who get one of the pumps at a cheaper price..but in the real world that's not how the wholesale supply model works and this kind of thing results in higher prices all round for everyone else, and less circulation of/education about the product. I've spent sh*tloads of time talking to people about and helping people with these pumps in the shop, and what a kick in the guts it was to have a couple of the local guys spend that time squeezing me for information on how to set it up etc etc etc, and then cancel their orders at the last minute leaving me holding the bag. All for a grand total of 11% margin or $26.40(yes GB, you were right on the money). Compare that to the over $2000 a month that we pay for rent & outgoings and it doesn't seem much worth it does it?

A clever person could easily see that the people involved in the bulk buy get a small win, but the hundreds of other home brewers that wander into HBS's around the country don't - because they won't see the pump at all because it won't be in stock..............so a few win but the vast majority lose lose lose...........including the HBS owner and their family.....
So go on, sell your local HBS out to save $10 or $20...but don't expect them to be there when you need something else. In today's financial market, they just may have gone belly up or decided that it's no longer worth working 60-80 hour weeks to try and put food on the table.....

Quite simply put - We the HBS's NEED YOU the customer in order to survive. Unless you want to HAVE to do bulk buys to get stuff at all, you had better think about the fact that the only reason half the products available to you ARE available, is because some of us have put our necks, homes, marriages etc on the line and made sacrifices to do so. THINK about it. It's about time someone did.
Anyone who thinks HBS owners get rich is fooling themselves. (Well...maybe a Brewcraft shop owner might.......but then you'd pay $450 for a pump from them if they stocked it ... )
Support your local. We depend on you.

I'm sure there will be those who will try and crucify me over these comments - so be it. They are the truth, and it's about time someone shattered this myth that us HBS's are ripping you all off and laughing our way to the Bahamas........

Good to see GB and Ross speak up too.......I know Ross has copped lots of crap that he doesn't deserve in the past....but has anyone thought about how much of his own money he has tied up, how much work he does, and how many products he has made available by doing so? It's all relative.

Good on you Dom,Well put together after many hours of unpaid work.Lots of respect for you.Like me you will have to battle to survive.Brewing is my passion and I hope to be around as long as the rest of us retailers that put our time and knowledge back into the brewing scene.
GB

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Boo Hoo

He is the national distributor for that product and has no claim to look after retailers.

Will CB, G&G , Beerbelly buy 20 pumps in one hit, no consignment, money is in the bank?.
The problem i see, is retailers whom think they have some god given advantage over "the people", and then attack the wholesaler whom is selling wholesale.

Perhaps some retailers need too get off their arse and grow their business. i.e buy a shite load of pumps!!!!!!!!
Brissybrewer did it with the mills!

Haysie another classic, I love the Boo Hoo.Keep them coming.
GB

 

[domonsura]

Boo Hoo

He is the national distributor for that product and has no claim to look after retailers.

Will CB, G&G , Beerbelly buy 20 pumps in one hit, no consignment, money is in the bank?.
The problem i see, is retailers whom think they have some god given advantage over "the people", and then attack the wholesaler whom is selling wholesale.

Perhaps some retailers need too get off their arse and grow their business. i.e buy a shite load of pumps!!!!!!!!
Brissybrewer did it with the mills!

edit, agian reading the dom post, why the hell should you get a better price than 20 customers paying NOW. Retailing isnt a way its a choice.

A great response as always Haysie........great coming from you considering you think nothing of abusing and threatening retailers when you don't get your own way......I still have copies of your extremely abusive emails - would you like me to show everyone a bit of your true character?

Read the post again.... I wasn't asking for a better price - I was asking for the same price. And the sales that took place for the bulk buy were individually handled by PP staff, not one sale handled once by PP staff. So get your facts right sonny.
And the reason you wouldn't buy 20 pumps at once is that the price wouldn't really be any better, and you would be $5000 out of pocket until they sold, which for most small businesses would be a death blow. But you know all that don't you.........because you know everything....go have another beer and STFU.