Malt Shovel Kits

[big d]

hey batz
send this query to the coopers site.
bet ya get a real quick response denying it.
i gave them a post awhile back basically saying they sold out of leabrook to go bigger etc at regency park and geez did they give me a bollocking about the reasons behind it.still family owned bla bla blah where right your wrong etc etc.
no we havent sold our soles to become another mass produced beer bla bla blah.
think i hit a huge nerve

cheers
big d

 

[Batz]

Your may be in for another bollocking !
You see the response I got sometime back when I found out thier wine kits where made up and packaged in Canada , then send back to OZ
They did'nt like anyone knowing that

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Just grabbed a Two Row Lager can from Big W and think Ill start it tonight.

The supplied yeast purports to be a Lager strain, but the instructions say 18-14 degrees fermenting temp.

Im guessing that it is in fact an Ale strain.

Should I pitch a Saflager 34/70 sachet Ive already got at home instead?

PZ.

 

[KillerRx4]

Should I pitch a Saflager 34/70 sachet Ive already got at home instead?

PZ.

If you have a 34/70 use it I reckon. I did 1 of the malt shovel kits once & tried to rehydrate the supplied yeast. Tried but failed.

 

[DJR]

i hear that they do not come from the same factory as James Squire beers but rather from someplace in New Zealand

Heh i asked Chuck about that at the Malt Shovel the other day - he said "no" and walked off in a hurry

He was trying to tell us the little 11.5L fermenters were good too

 

[Trough Lolly]

Just grabbed a Two Row Lager can from Big W and think Ill start it tonight.

The supplied yeast purports to be a Lager strain, but the instructions say 18-14 degrees fermenting temp.

Im guessing that it is in fact an Ale strain.

Should I pitch a Saflager 34/70 sachet Ive already got at home instead?

PZ.

For fun, I did a choc stout partial the other weekend using 1 can of their Oatmeal stout kit - it made 1 keg of pretty nice choc stout - mind you the Bairds Stout malt and Thomas Fawcett crystal and roasted barley didn't hurt either!!

Definitely use the W34/70 (liquid or dry) if you've got it. It's a quantam leap compared to the yeast under the lid...

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Definitely use the W34/70 (liquid or dry) if you've got it. It's a quantam leap compared to the yeast under the lid...

OK :chug:

PZ.

 

[hendo1963]

The yeast supplied with the MSB Two-Row Lager tin is actually a Saflager that they have re-packaged (no dout they buy it in bulk packs) . From memory it's S-23 (I could be wrong on that). They supplied me with this information about a year ago via a website inquiry. That makes the kit pretty good value, especially if you but it in Big-W for c. $12.00!
I know they recommend fermenting at 18C., but I guess they're just trying to make the process fool-proof. Makes a nice European-style lager with the addition of some grains and finishing hops. I've also used MSB Oatmeal Stout as a base for a chocolate stout with Cooper's yeast cultured from a bottel of Pale Ale, & it turned out very good, but the rest of their kits I was disapointed with, although I'm tempted to try & improve the Pale Ale with grains/hops. I like the concept of the 11.5 litre batch, because it allows for developing a cellar of different styles of beer quite quickly. :beer: FWIW. Good brewing!

 

[Trough Lolly]

Interesting....if MSB is actually shipping out S-23 with their kits, they deserve a big pat on the back for trying to lift their overall quality levels, but it's therefore a real shame that those sachets of lager yeast are sitting under a black lid on a kit that sits on a shelf at room temps or worst still, in the sun on a brewshop shelf! :blink:

I'd still rate the W34/70 strain ahead of S-23 but if they are shipping saflager, I commend them for at least doing it...

Cheers,
TL

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Well, I haven't used 34/70 before.

Pitched after rehydration last night around 6pm...still nothing at lunchtime today

How long does this stuff take to "get moving"?

I kept the supplied yeast, so I'll pitch it as well if the 34/70 fails to start :blink:

PZ.

 

[Steve]

Well, I haven't used 34/70 before.

Pitched after rehydration last night around 6pm...still nothing at lunchtime today

How long does this stuff take to "get moving"?

I kept the supplied yeast, so I'll pitch it as well if the 34/70 fails to start :blink:

PZ.

FB - mine are usually gonig off after 12 hours. I dont re-hydrate. It should be going by now? How many packets did you use and what temp is it at?
Cheers
Steve

 

[Morrie0069]

I did an MSB 2 can of the 2 row lager about 2 months ago(way too many 2's in that sentence !) - made up in afternoon and had activity the next morning stitting at around 17 degrees, no rehydration done. Perhaps give it a little longer and if nothing pitch again.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Yep - too soon PZ...W34/70 doesn't need to be rushed and it does take longer, especially if you are fermenting at true lager temps (approx 10C). I did a German Pils a few months ago and it took a couple of days to get going. I typically leave W34/70 in primary for at least 2 weeks...Lagers are like brewing in slo-mo!!
The yeast will be in the adaptive phase right now (unless they're a dud batch or they're completely dead!!). They can also take a few hits if you shock them by transferring them to a solution that's 10 degrees or more different to their source solution, eg pitching yeast at 8C into a fermenter at 20C.
Although you might not see any airlock action, the yeast will be multiplying in cell count, using up the available oxygen to aerobically build up in size before entering into the attenuative phase where they get to work on the rest of the sugars and ferment the beer. You'll see a buildup of sediment on the floor of the fermenter.
It's also worth noting that even after entering the attenuative phase, you won't get any airlock action until the yeast has consumed at least 5% of the fermentables on offer and they've saturated the solution with CO2 resulting in bubbling and eventual airlock movement. This is another reason why the best measure of yeast attenuation is via gravity readings and not watching an airlock.
Cheers,
TL

 

[Steve]

Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. :blink: (first time pitching two packets)
Cheers
Steve

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

One sachet (15g I think). Its only 11 litres, so I thought that would be heaps.

Pitched it into 18 degree wort, but it has since dropped to 12.

PZ.

 

[Steve]

One sachet (15g I think). Its only 11 litres, so I thought that would be heaps.

Pitched it into 18 degree wort, but it has since dropped to 12.

PZ.

I'd probably take a reading either tonight or tomorrow morning to see if has dropped any. Did you take a reading when you made it? If it hasnt dropped any in a few days i'd be thinking about pitching another packet. I only usually use one packet and thought i'd experiment with two. Huge Krausen and probably 50mm layer of sediment in the bottom.

 

[berazafi]

Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. (first time pitching two packets)
Cheers
Steve

You may find that the majority of fermentation happened at around the 18 deg mark, especially if you temperauture control was the ambeint air and not the wort. If fermentation started at 18 its possible it would not cool down due the the heat the yeast produce and thus perform a very fast ferment

 

[hendo1963]

Interesting....if MSB is actually shipping out S-23 with their kits, they deserve a big pat on the back for trying to lift their overall quality levels, but it's therefore a real shame that those sachets of lager yeast are sitting under a black lid on a kit that sits on a shelf at room temps or worst still, in the sun on a brewshop shelf! :blink:

I'd still rate the W34/70 strain ahead of S-23 but if they are shipping saflager, I commend them for at least doing it...

Cheers,
TL

Agreed, Trough Lolly, they deserve kudos for supplying their customers with such a quality yeast with this kit, although, as I intimated, I think apart from the lager the kits are pretty average (some say the wheat beer is good, it's the one I haven't tried yet). It may even be W34/70 - as I said, I could be wrong because I have long since deleted the e-mail, but it was definitely Saflager. According to the label, MSB are made by the Canterbury, NZ brewery that also produces Black Rock and the NZ Mac's brand (which look suspiciously like MSB re-packaged for the NZ market, or is it the other way 'round?). Unfortunately, I didn't ask what type of yeast they supply with their ale kits.
Btw, I'm pretty sure Cooper's are supplying various types of Saf yeasts with their 'Thomas Cooper's' range.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Well, to be sure I also emailed MSB and Jess replied saying he didnt know, but Maltexo could help me.

I called them and spoke to some woman who said she didnt know which strain it was but that is was definitely a lager strain.

When I queried the specified high fermentation temperature she suggested maybe thats because its EuropeanOMG :lol: :unsure:

I then said lager yeast is European and goodbye!

PZ.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. :blink: (first time pitching two packets)
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,
Hope last night's meeting was a goodun - one day the missus will be at home, not work, and I'll be able to rejoin the festivities...
There's a consensus that two packs of W34/70 is good for standard batches around the 23L mark - and of course, you should always try to build up a decent sized and active starter when you use the liquid yeast variant. On the dry strains, I've been lazy lately and simply pitch them into the wort and be done with it - accepting the risk of repitching fresh yeast if the sachets are inactive...
Have you tasted the brew yet? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if you have any fusels (solventy / harsh nail polish like flavour and aroma) or fruity esters in the beer, after a relatively high starting temp.
Some recent discussions on the HBD.org forum indicates that fusels aren't too much of a problem if the temp drop occurs early in primary, as US brewer Steve Alexander noted in a PM to me on 19 May when I asked about pitching lager yeast warm (24C) and fermenting cool (11C) and I quote:

The big hump in ester production occurs when yeast growth ceases, late fermentation, and should be considerably influences by the temp at that time.

Fusels are formed both early and late, but so long as the hi-temp period is short that's probably tolerable. My biggest concern is that the yeast can only form UFA lipids during the early aerobic period and they form less at higher temps. With less UFA the yeast may have stress problems (stuck fermentation, poor hi-grav performance) and will generally produce more fusels late than hi-UFA yeasts.

So the actual performance is dependent on the yeast and the wort - if the gravity is modest and the yeast aren't fusel prone you can probably get away with it. I don't see any worthwhile advantage to warm pitching.

-S

Anyways, to lurch briefly back on topic, I've found the Oatmeal stout kit ok, but to be fair, it constitutes less than 30% of the total fermentables in my partial stout brew....and the all grain variant is better again, IMHO. h34r:

Cheers,
TL