Malt Pipe question

[scooterism]

Is 250mm diameter too 'narrow' for a malt pipe?

 

[Andy_27]

From my totally unqualified mind, I'd say yes, since the Robobrew brew pipe has been widened in its latest version due to the first one being narrow and causing stuck sparges.

 

[n87]

Would depend on how much grain you wish to put in it....

 

[micbrew]

what size is the kettle ... depth and diameter

what volume / output do you hope to achieve

 

[malt junkie]

as opined how long is a piece of string.

The wider the better really. However remember malt pipe volume dictates total grain bill, 3.65L (min) to 1kg of malt. The deeper the malt bed the greater chance of sticking the mash.

 

[MitchD]

3.65L (min) to 1kg of malt.

BS. That would mean I could only mash 5kg in my big w 19l when I have mashed over 7.5kg.

As for the op, the wider the better and a big w 19l is easy and cheap @ $20. From memory It's 320mm wide but that might be the outer edge.

 

[malt junkie]

BS. That would mean I could only mash 5kg in my big w 19l when I have mashed over 7.5kg.

As for the op, the wider the better and a big w 19l is easy and cheap @ $20. From memory It's 320mm wide but that might be the outer edge.

In GF configuration (top down) you may well be able to go bellow 3.65l/KG, BM configuration (bottom up) definitely not, as the OP hasn't stated flow direction, erring on the side of caution.
Also how much efficiency did you lose @ 7.5 kg, In my large malt pipe anything over 18kg takes a decent hit in numbers (Brauclone).

My next point isn't very DIY, there is a bit of faffing about building these things, if your building a single batch system have you considered the Guten for < $700 at your door and the next model(50L I think) up is still under $1000. If these had been available 4 or five years ago when I was looking at 1v's I would never have built.

2c

 

[MitchD]

Not sure how gf vs bm would make a difference but i'm using it gf style.

Mash eff %80+ brew house eff %70~. Same as i get with less malt.

 

[malt junkie]

Not sure how gf vs bm would make a difference but i'm using it gf style.

Probably not something you NEED to know, if however someone wanted to find out, reading the BM and BM clone/controller threads would be a good start; in general it has to do with fluid dynamics( you can't run 10000LPM through a straw.) The reason I and many others went with the BM method was to avoid the need for flow control: no chance of overflowing grain into the main vessel or running the bed dry. Obviously with the advent of the GF/Guten, design has improved and these systems are mash in and walk away as much as mine is.

 

[Lionman]

In GF configuration (top down) you may well be able to go bellow 3.65l/KG, BM configuration (bottom up) definitely not, as the OP hasn't stated flow direction, erring on the side of caution.
Also how much efficiency did you lose @ 7.5 kg, In my large malt pipe anything over 18kg takes a decent hit in numbers (Brauclone).

My next point isn't very DIY, there is a bit of faffing about building these things, if your building a single batch system have you considered the Guten for < $700 at your door and the next model(50L I think) up is still under $1000. If these had been available 4 or five years ago when I was looking at 1v's I would never have built.

2c

The 50L Guten is under $700 delivered.

 

[MitchD]

I also run mathos controller and I have read through the various threads, what I cant understand is why brewers invest so much time and money cloning a brau. Top down is so much simpler and with a little ingenuity I can run a hands free with no risk of running the element or grain bed dry.

Back to the op. What style system are you going with?

 

[Jase]

Interesting topic.......

I had my maiden single vessel brewday last weekend (I have been brewing on a 3V for many many years, but made the switch to brew small volumes and more variety/experimenting). My only teething problem was that the malt pipe was draining slowly and I ran the risk of an exposed element. I started with 3 litres per kg, so I made a decision to add the full volume of water required to remove that risk. Measured the efficiency at the end of the brew and it was 79%, couldn't compare it against previous brews as I have not had the need to measure efficiency before.

I am looking to overcome this issue by drilling a lot more holes in the bottom of the malt pipe. Hoping to have it finished by the weekend, in time for the next brew day!

Cheers,
Jase

 

[MitchD]

Maximun flow isnt the be all and end all of a 1v recirc setup. At sacc rest temps slow flow is ok as the aim of this step is breaking down the starches, so low flow through the malt pipe is fine and expected because this is where the large starch chains become gelatinous. As the starches break down the mash will start to thin as this happens the flow will improve allowing the wort to clarify. Mashing out at 78c will get even more surar into solution, speeding up recirculation even more.

If you sparge it will be by fly sparge method and a fast flow will actually diminish the sparge effects.

Ive worked out for mine that 22l+ is the minimum pre strike allowable so as to not drain past the element, have you worked out yours?

Mash eff was pretty good so with a few tweaks it'll be running sweet.

 

[Matplat]

Likewise, I end up at around 20l to have everything safely covered.

If you sparge, you should sparge before you lift the malt pipe, as the level outside the pot rises, the flow rate through the bed will slow down, and you should get better extraction.

 

[malt junkie]

My malt pipe is lifted with a little winch, so as I sparge I lift the malt pipe maybe an inch or so every 5 mins.

 

[Lionman]

Interesting topic.......

I had my maiden single vessel brewday last weekend (I have been brewing on a 3V for many many years, but made the switch to brew small volumes and more variety/experimenting). My only teething problem was that the malt pipe was draining slowly and I ran the risk of an exposed element. I started with 3 litres per kg, so I made a decision to add the full volume of water required to remove that risk. Measured the efficiency at the end of the brew and it was 79%, couldn't compare it against previous brews as I have not had the need to measure efficiency before.

I am looking to overcome this issue by drilling a lot more holes in the bottom of the malt pipe. Hoping to have it finished by the weekend, in time for the next brew day!

Cheers,
Jase

I mash into around 25L and sparge about 10L. Usually have about 6-7kg of grist. Post 60min boil have about 25L. 80% efficiency.

How can you even get close to exposing the element in a 1v system? I haven't set up my pump yet but I can't imagine circulatng enough to completely drain the bottom of the tun. Where does all the wort go?

 

[rude]

I have a malt pipe (Big W pot ) but havent used it yet

Was thinking of 25 L mash in for 15 -16 L then sparge to get to 30 - 32 L 4 - 5 kg of grain
but this would be a high grain to water ratio ?

Hopefully end up with 25 L to fill cube 22 - 23 L

Like the idea of raising slowly for sparge mint

I have a return like others to whirpool & keep wort over the element

 

[Jase]

Maximun flow isnt the be all and end all of a 1v recirc setup. At sacc rest temps slow flow is ok as the aim of this step is breaking down the starches, so low flow through the malt pipe is fine and expected because this is where the large starch chains become gelatinous. As the starches break down the mash will start to thin as this happens the flow will improve allowing the wort to clarify. Mashing out at 78c will get even more surar into solution, speeding up recirculation even more.

If you sparge it will be by fly sparge method and a fast flow will actually diminish the sparge effects.

Ive worked out for mine that 22l+ is the minimum pre strike allowable so as to not drain past the element, have you worked out yours?

Mash eff was pretty good so with a few tweaks it'll be running sweet.

Great post MitchD.

Shame, I didn't read it prior to drilling more holes in the malt pipe. I brewed again yesterday, the flow is faster and my efficiency has dropped. With some trials and errors, I should find a happy balance that works.

It seems that 22 litres is a good number for element allowance. Dialed those numbers into my recipes yesterday and it was a relatively smooth day.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[Jase]

Likewise, I end up at around 20l to have everything safely covered.

If you sparge, you should sparge before you lift the malt pipe, as the level outside the pot rises, the flow rate through the bed will slow down, and you should get better extraction.

Cheers Matplat,

I'll try your method of sparging before lifting the malt pipe on my next brewday.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[Jase]

I mash into around 25L and sparge about 10L. Usually have about 6-7kg of grist. Post 60min boil have about 25L. 80% efficiency.

How can you even get close to exposing the element in a 1v system? I haven't set up my pump yet but I can't imagine circulatng enough to completely drain the bottom of the tun. Where does all the wort go?

Hi Lionman,

I think the trick is in the mash in volume. My first recipe called for a mash in volume of 17 litres. All sorted now.

Cheers,
Jase