Looking to enter the world of home brewing and have a few questions

[dphwilliams]

G'day everyone

As someone who enjoys a good beer and whiskey, I'm looking to enter the world of home brewing. One of the biggest motivators is my hatred for paying taxes (I'm libertarian). Knowing that so much of the bottle price is going to the state doesn't exactly get me excited. Another is that I work in the grain export industry. I test grain for quality so have an endless supply to either free or very cheap grains such as wheat, barley, oats, corn, sorghum, etc. I can also keep aside the best of the best for me while cleaning and grading it to further improve quality on work equipment if I so wish.

I know nothing about home brewing as yet but have just purchased John J. Palmer's book "How To Brew" on Book Depository. Will read it from cover to cover once I receive it while also trying to learn what I can from this great forum here.

I suppose I'm initially curious about equipment and upfront costs. I don't have a huge amount of money to put into brewing/distilling right at the moment. I do have two electric grain mills that mean I can crack grain either very fine or coarse. I've heard this can be useful for brewing & distilling??

I've got a couple of mates and couple of family members that would be keen to join in if I can brew a good beer. Between us we probably drink 5 cartons per week at the moment. I'm curious as to whether I'd need a heap of money to get started and make a good brew? Would we be able to save some coin if we were to home brew 5 cartons a week instead of buying these (considering grain would not cost or cost very little)? Or is it more a hobby of love that probably won't amount to much in the way of cost savings?

 

[Ben1]

What kind of beer do you enjoy drinking? I find if you're just trying to recreate the cheaper lagers, it can be hard to justify the work for such little gain. If however you are into craft beer, the savings can be quite substantial.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Welcome aboard.

You have come to the right place.

Equipment can cost as much or as little as you want to spend.

Look up Brew In A Bag (BIAB) for probably the quickest cheap way to get into all grain brewing.

There is a thread titled something like "Move to all grain for thirty bucks" or words to that effect.

You can brew good beer on cheap equipment for sure.

Its a hobby that many of us start in with the view to brewing beer cheaply - however it is a slippery slope that can become an obsession in upgrading your rig continually.

I am not a grain expert - but unless the grain you have access to is already malted it isn't going to be much use to you unless you plan on malting it yourself (not impossible - but not easy as I understand).

Good luck - read lots on here, do lots of searching - without a doubt there is every chance whatever your question it has already been asked and answered

 

[dphwilliams]

I prefer a good craft lager any day. However the cost of buying them vs cheaper lagers means I'm currently mostly drinking the mass produced lagers.

 

[n87]

Ya, look up BIAB

For your consumption, you will need >70L pot.
i have a 82L pot, that i can easily do a 'double' batch in (~50L of wort(unfermented beer))
this would give you ~45L into bottles
which would give you ~5 cases per run.

i usually do 2 80L batches in a day and 'Cube' them (look up cubing) so i can start the ferment at my leisure

more money generally means less work... but doesn't have as much to do with the end result (from what i understand)

(PS... don't mention the still... i did once, but i think i got away with it)

 

[Nizmoose]

I think the cost is definitely a by product of making good beer i.e. You will make 80 dollar slabs for 10 dollars BUT if you get into the hobby don't expect to reap any savings any time soon if ever. When I started a year ago and people on here told me that it would be a slippery slope I laughed and thought "Ha, I have my $50 dollars worth of equipment and that's enough for me, I don't need anything else. I'll make my money back in two batches!" Then burners, pots, bags, siphons, fermenters, jugs, scales, hop rhizomes and temp sensors were things I really 'needed' and today I just spent 300 dollars on my first keg set-up because I just can't help but think that beer on tap is definitely something I need . In other words you can definitely produce great beer for a very low cost compared to buying it but be warned, once this hobby bites it bites like a bitch and does NOT let go.... In a good way

 

[mxd]

I prefer a good craft lager any day. However the cost of buying them vs cheaper lagers means I'm currently mostly drinking the mass produced lagers.

can you give us example of the good craft lager ?

5 cases is a big weekly turn over that will need a "decent size system" and all the appropriate fermenting stuff.

you could look at a BOP (Brew on Premise) place which will be $160 per 50 litres

 

[mckenry]

Yep, you have some great ambitions, but need some facts.
A 'regular' ale is going to take about 2 weeks from the day you make it, til the day you can drink it, IF you keg your beer. About a month if you bottle.
5 cartons is 45L. A 'regular' batch is about 20L. Myself, I knock out 50L at a time, others more, but mostly people using the BIAB method with an urn are looking to knock out around 20L, which is a keg. Others do 30 and bottle 10 litres etc.

So, to do 45L, youre going to need bigger than regular equipment*** and a big fermenter(s)
It can be done and done cheaply and easily - its just going to take some effort and good advice. See if someone on here lives in your area.
You can try fresh wort kits - about $45 for 20L if I remember correctly.
BTW, thats about twice the price of doing it yourself from grain.
It was mentioned above and I'd like to reiterate, the grain youre testing as a job, is no good for brewing unless it is already malted. Thats not a blanket rule, some unmalted grains can be used in brewing, but the majority of your brew must be malted.

Good luck, get into it.
P.S. I just spent another $150 'upgrading' my rig.... Youll understand one day - basically 'didnt need it, just wanted it. Wont make better beer, but I like it' kinda upgrade....

*** You can look up overgravity brewing, MAXI BIAB (or something like that) for ways of increasing your batch size with smaller equipment.

 

[MastersBrewery]

The above is all good advice, and starting out, to build your confidence and see what you and your cohorts think of the quality beer you can produce, BIAB would be the best way to start out. However the fun of brewing becomes a chore if it's taking up a day of EVERY weekend. If you are able to split the costs of equipment with family/friends with the through put your looking at I'd go big and make brewing your beer a monthly get together. If I was at the same quantities I'd be going 1BBL out put (31gal US or 114 Litres) the next big hit to the budget would be kegging. I have bottled 40L with swmbo helping it still took most of a day(including cleaning and sanitising). ATM I'm about to setup another keg system (cheap mind you for the niece; she likes my cider) this should all up set me back $200 but I have gas, regulator, and kegs for the system already.

Brewing beer is cheap once you've got the gear to do it
that said; do it once, do it right, spend the money once.

MB

ed: clarity

 

[contrarian]

To get started you don't need too much. A decent 70L pot is about $150, a good burner and regulator (medium or high flow) probably another $150, a bag up to $25 and a way to lift it maybe another $10-$20.

Given you are initially after high turnover rather than variety get a 60L fermenter and 2 20L cubes, they actually hold a couple of litres more. You can fill 2 from one batch and ferment them together.

If you have a ruler you can measure volume but it is handy to have a hydrometer, mainly so you can be sure your beer is finished fermenting before bottling.

You can make wort one day, start fermenting by tipping into the fermenter and adding yeast the next and bottle 7 days or longer later. It'll be ready to drink in a couple of weeks but a bit longer doesn't hurt.

So 5 cases a week with. 3-4 week turn around means you will need about 500-600 stubbies or half as many long necks to keep things rolling over!

If your goal is to save money on beer then it is achievable but as others have said it is a slippery slope!

 

[indica86]

I have bottled 40L with swmbo helping it still took most of a day(including cleaning and sanitising).

REALLY? Wtf?
I often bottle two FVs and it doesn't take me more than 2 hours.

 

[Yob]

Do yourself a favour, get to know the various systems, read, read, read, then put the system together. I punch out 75l from a brewday, but I made an artform of bargain hunting and my system (brewing) was ~$500 You can do it cheaper, you can do it many ways.it can be hard to understand where it will take you.

Go as large as you can is my advice, especially if you are collaboration brewing.

 

[indica86]

+ 1 to Yob.
R E A D.
Find someone near you that does it. This will help you to understand if it is something you can and want to achieve,.

 

[MastersBrewery]

REALLY? Wtf?
I often bottle two FVs and it doesn't take me more than 2 hours.

when Ya got two knee knockers interrupting .... yes, well think it was around 4 hours. still doing this weekly would soon get tiresome.


ED: The OP desires some quite significant quantities; about 2BBL monthly, Yob batches at quatities to ensure his supply line doesn't run out(he is'nt fermenting the entire batch as it's made), as he doesn't brew as often now he has a mini yob and another on the way (congrats :blink: ). Most of us do the same, however with me I keep blowing kegs without something to replace it fairly regularly. In the OP's place I'd rig up with a double batch Biab rig (reasonably cost effective) using a min 98L pot to allow for future expansion. And a keg set up. Let the family/friends have time to get on board and as Yob eluded to setup a collaborative brewery and go big. Bottling 40L maybe all well and good but if you brewed fortnightly or monthly the volumes quickly get beyond what can take place in a normal HB setup. I could stretch 200L fermenting at once but 100L of each would be treated the same across two fridges. Most here would call that luxury. And lagers is a whole different ball game 2 weeks ferment 3-4 weeks lagering. Volume turn over. It's more than doable but as Yob says read some , then read some more.

 

[indica86]

Sorry, read most of the day to mean most of the day.

 

[manticle]

There's a bunch of brewers and a brew club up your way.

 

[yankinoz]

Obviously the cost of brew kettles rises with their capacity. Shop around, but you can brew 20L batches in a 24l kettle; you just have to add sanitized water after the boil. That can be done in the fermenter, as Palmer suggests,and/or at knockout to quickly drop the temp below 80 C, which nearly stops DMS formation. The latter is a big help if you have not bought a chiller and are using a tub full of ice. Boiling partial volume increases the hops needed for a given level of bitterness, but not by much. Much commercial beer, including some micros, is diluted after the boil or even after fermentation. It saves energy costs. If your boil volume is less than 25L, a stove with a large gas burner, such as those for heating woks, will give you a vigorous boil. For bigger volumes of wort or if you have an electric stove, you may require a large propane burner.

Later, if you get a bigger kettle, you will still find the old one handy. I do BIAB, start a mash in one kettle, drop that kettle into a box lined with earth wool,for the mash, remove at end, lift, drain and squeeze the bag, and then put the bag into an old kettle with sanitized and slightly acidifed water for a dunk sparge.

What environment do you have, and what temperatures? Sooner or later you will want temperature control, which can be done without a thermostat, though the latter makes it easier. In the meantime, try to find a place with a fairly constant ambient temp. Unless you have an icy cellar, lagers will be your best bet.