Little Brown Pumps - Rig Volume Limits?
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bignath
"Grains don't grow up to be chips, son"
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Sera,
i recirc in a single vessel (60lt pot), the pump is mounted below the output ball valve, and it returns the runnings back up the top and in through the lid. (see my signature build if unsure). Handles the job easily, i have to back the pump off a lot actually - probably throttling it back by 50% with an inline valve fitting.
Also used the brown pump in my 3V days, to recirculate my strike water in HLT before transferring from the 50lt keg HLT to the mash tun. Easily did it.
I don't have a separate rims or heat exhanger though so i don't know how this setup would effect it's performance.
I love the brown pumps, they are an absolute steal. BUT, if i had to get another soon, i may look at the green magnetic ones as i often worry about the strength of the power cables that feed the little brown pump, and would prefer a 240v type. But, the little brown pump is showing no signs of slowing down. I'm on my second in about 4 years, and this second one is only a few months old, so my first was good for atleast 3 years of pretty consistent use.
Nath
My 2c, because I think this is a topic which will come down to opinion.
There will be a direct split of three crowds, those who say it can, those who say it can't, and the others...
I've got one of the 12v brown pumps (model with the removable base). Real world performance lifting the height of a keggle through 1/2" lines and a ball valve I get 4.5L per minute.
Say the double is a 50L batch size. Mash in would be up to 35L of strike water. At 4.5L/min that would take 8mins to fully recirculate all the volume of wort. My opinion that's too slow and the mash bed will lag behind too much in steps, with it possibly never even catching up on a 30min step. Some will debate that the conversion is done in the wort and not the grain bed. But last time I checked my mash bed is soaking in wort when brewing. With the majority of wort around that mash bed that is still converting sugars, it's converting at the mash bed temp.
QldKev
There will be a direct split of three crowds, those who say it can, those who say it can't, and the others...
I've got one of the 12v brown pumps (model with the removable base). Real world performance lifting the height of a keggle through 1/2" lines and a ball valve I get 4.5L per minute.
Say the double is a 50L batch size. Mash in would be up to 35L of strike water. At 4.5L/min that would take 8mins to fully recirculate all the volume of wort. My opinion that's too slow and the mash bed will lag behind too much in steps, with it possibly never even catching up on a 30min step. Some will debate that the conversion is done in the wort and not the grain bed. But last time I checked my mash bed is soaking in wort when brewing. With the majority of wort around that mash bed that is still converting sugars, it's converting at the mash bed temp.
QldKev
bignath
"Grains don't grow up to be chips, son"
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Nah, nothing like that mate...
Just worry about getting the cables caught on something and pulling them out of the actual pump body due to some stupid, unforeseen, often drunken brew day mishap.
As i said, no signs of needing to replace it, or any of the parts associated with it. It's just 'cause i'm paranoid about stuff, and treat my gear with kid gloves a lot of the time, both brewing related gear, and other stuff like guitars and drums....
The pump isn't running on my main 3V, I've already got a march pump there. It's on an experimental system, a single batch size BIAB/Braumeister ripoff type system for making experimental recipes and things like lambics where I don't want multiple cubes of the beer. Even with the single experimental system I was hoping to have enough flow to recirculate 1/2 the wort through the grain (like a normal system) and also the other 1/2 of the wort back under the false bottom to keep the wort moving past the element mounted under there to prevent scorching. After testing I won't be using the brown pump for it, and have ordered a Kaixin (aka green pump, actually mine will be white), in the MP-20 size.
I don't think there necessarily is a wrong/right answer with recirculation speeds. A laggy grain bed just means there is more time the wort is at a lower temp converting. After sampling the beer, it could just mean a shorter step time at the lower rests and a longer on at the higher temps to result in the same beer as originally planned for. Which realistically we all should tweak the recipe to suit our own systems.
edit: Just had a brain fart. I'm also assuming you are performing temperature steps. If you are performing infusion steps or a single step brew, then I think you would only need a slow recirculation to clarify and maintain temps.
QldKev
Yob
Hop to it
the 24V LBP's have a flow rate of 12l per min and I personally cant fault it.. the other month I tried an experiment and almost filled my Willow esky with grains (12kg from memory) to do a partigyle brew.
I was expecting trouble with it but it ran as smoothly as I could have hoped for.. about 1'c per min for ramping times.
I also run a 12v type on my HLT and have done for some time and also cant fault it.
I know some people out there have had some trouble but this has not been my experience.
Yob
I was expecting trouble with it but it ran as smoothly as I could have hoped for.. about 1'c per min for ramping times.
I also run a 12v type on my HLT and have done for some time and also cant fault it.
I know some people out there have had some trouble but this has not been my experience.
Yob
Hey Kev,
Is the pump you are getting rated at above the 100 degree mark and made of polysulfone?
I am on the lookout for one of these at a good price
Nope, the pump I ordered was the standard polypropylene. (fingers crossed since they are sending a white version it may be the new one) It will be interesting to see how much the polysulfone ones will be when they hit the market. I wasn't worried about the >80c property as even my march has never seen water above 78c mashout.
I just purchased it from that link Wolfy found here
QldKev
Yob
Hop to it
following that link Kev, it says a standard 2m Head? is that right as you understand it?
Yob
Hop to it
just curious mate, my HEX has almost 3m of copper so may not be the best for me... not that I have a problem with the pump im using but always looking at gear just in case my mind changes down the line
ed: I thought the LBP's (12v) had a 3m head?
:icon_cheers:
ed: I thought the LBP's (12v) had a 3m head?
:icon_cheers:
mxd
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Hi Kev,
How are you going to plumb that, wolfy got the older ones with thread, these don't have thead, are you just going to clamp a hose on ?
just curious mate, my HEX has almost 3m of copper so may not be the best for me... not that I have a problem with the pump im using but always looking at gear just in case my mind changes down the line
ed: I thought the LBP's (12v) had a 3m head?
:icon_cheers:
On the brown pump that's max head, not standard head
max head is the height where you get virtually no flow.
standard head is a reasonable expected working level.
I would not be overly worried about a 3m coil. With a 'head' it needs to lift the volume of water that high, fighting gravity. With a long coil you should not need lift the water above the normal return height anyway. The extra length will cause some extra resistance, but I don't **think** it should be a major issue. I did run my brown pump through the HERMIT coil (also about 3m) and didn't visually notice a huge variation in flow, but never measured it.
QldKev
They have the option of threaded MP-20R vs MP-20RM
I went for the non-threaded version due to where it is planned to be mounted I though it would be easier to plumb and just use a hose clamp, and also no need to worry about cracking the plastic with my heavy handed approach doing up fittings. It will still will be a bugger to get 1/2" hose over the 18mm fitting.
Sorry to Sera for all the off topic, but it is kind of related hopefully.
QldKev
My threads always derail Kev, it's just how things go around here
I think i might actually get a kaixin myself and keep the march for the monster brewery, so it's been a useful thread so far
Which one to get... The current polypropylene, or the proposed polysulfone mentioned in this thread, or talking with Jack (supplier contact from link above) they also make a syndiotactic polystyrene version of the MP-15. If you don't plan on recirculating the kettle I don't think it matters that much. I'm happy with the outcome of stirring with the mash paddle, hence I got the polypropylene one.
QldKev
I'd go with polysulfone given the choice, but that's just me. Otherwise i'll take what I can get. Seems they ran out of stock, but that's okay, I have a boatload of other work to do on brew rigs first
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