Liquid Yeast First Attempt - Screwed It Up?

[Hoser]

So I tried a yeast starter and liquid yeast for the first time today and I didn't do it right.

I boiled 2L water in a flask with 200g light malt extract and yeast nutrient (1/3 tspn) for 15 minutes, then let cool for approx 3hrs immersing the flask in cool water in the sink.

Concurrently I smacked a Wyeast packet and let it sit for 3 hours on the benchtop (was previously in fridge). Then I opened the Wyeast packet and poured it into the flask.

The flask was covered by aluminum foil only (bench, foil, flask edge, yeast packet all sanitised very well).

I've left the yeast starter sitting with the aluminum foil on top in a dark place shaking it every hour or so since and have seen no activity in the first 4 hours.

I didn't realise the packet should be swollen up like a football until I've researched it online. My packet wasn't swollen. It was a Dec'10 manufacturing date of a British Cask 1026 Wyeast. Have I ruined the yeast starter by not waiting long enough for the packet to activate? How can I tell if it's reached a peak to pitch in the wort. I had planned to make beer tomorrow...

Fingers crossed I haven't screwed this up but really not sure....

 

[brocky_555]

When it gets a krausen on the top of the starter wort pour it in to the beer asap

 

[felten]

It's not required to smack the pack to use it (though it's recommended), but it does give you an indication if your pack is a dud or not, you don't have to wait for the pack to swell if you don't want.

Dec 10 is pretty old even if it was stored properly, it can be difficult to see any action in the starter as it might not show the classic signs of a fermentation, also it might take a while to see any. Shine some light on it and if you can see lots of bubbles rising up then it's doing it's job.

I would let the starter go for 24-36 hr then decant the majority of the wort and pitch the rest of the slurry into the beer.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Hi Mate

Hours to get a starter going is probably a bit fast, it can take days. Don't stress too much though. I've subjected liquid yeast to far more abuse and the beers have turned out fine.

Smacking the pack is designed to show you if the yeast is viable or not. It isn't a mandatory part of using the yeast. Whether or not it will be ready to be pitched depends on the batch size/type that you will be brewing. For example If you are planning on brewing 200L of 1080+ beer then you should put off pitching until the starter has been stepped up some. If you are brewing 20L of 1050 beer you will be fine.

Some starters i've made show very little signs of fermentation. The only real way to tell if there is any action is to take a gravity reading.


Go forth and brew!!

Cheers

MOM

P.S. Dec 10 manufacture, that's about 2-3 months old? This is fairly recent and i'd be very confidant that the yeast is viable. If there are other guys out there that are not sure about their wyeast that is more than a few months old i will put my hand up to "dispose" of it for you

 

[Hoser]

Ok thanks. Now 12 hours later and still seeing no krausen. I had planned to make beer later today (extracts and some steeped grains). I expect I'll have the wort chilled pretty quickly afterward such that I can pitch the yeast by late tonight or tomorrow morning. Is it ok to leave the wort in a closed and sanitised fermenter until the krausen is there? This might mean leaving the wort until late tomorrow night which would be 48hrs for the starter.

Can't find anything in How to Brew about how long you can leave your wort before pitching yeast....

 

[donburke]

Ok thanks. Now 12 hours later and still seeing no krausen. I had planned to make beer later today (extracts and some steeped grains). I expect I'll have the wort chilled pretty quickly afterward such that I can pitch the yeast by late tonight or tomorrow morning. Is it ok to leave the wort in a closed and sanitised fermenter until the krausen is there? This might mean leaving the wort until late tomorrow night which would be 48hrs for the starter.

Can't find anything in How to Brew about how long you can leave your wort before pitching yeast....

pitch the yeast today, your yeasties have probably multiplied and taken up the oxygen in the growth phase already

it will be fine, very nice yeast by the way

 

[donburke]

Ok thanks. Now 12 hours later and still seeing no krausen. I had planned to make beer later today (extracts and some steeped grains). I expect I'll have the wort chilled pretty quickly afterward such that I can pitch the yeast by late tonight or tomorrow morning. Is it ok to leave the wort in a closed and sanitised fermenter until the krausen is there? This might mean leaving the wort until late tomorrow night which would be 48hrs for the starter.

Can't find anything in How to Brew about how long you can leave your wort before pitching yeast....

pitch the yeast today, your yeasties have probably multiplied and taken up the oxygen in the growth phase already

it will be fine, very nice yeast by the way

 

[Hoser]

cool thanks!

 

[Bribie G]

Very often you will not see krausen in a starter. I use Schott lab bottles with a screw lid and leave the lid open a 'crack'. After a few hours or even the next day if I give the bottle a swirl and can hear gas 'hissing' out I know it's working. It will foam up briefly then settle back to a flat surface, usually. Sometimes you will see a lot of krausen, depending on the yeast, but it's not a sure indication.

 

[DJR]

Dec 10 is pretty old even if it was stored properly

Not old at all Oldest i have had was a whitelabs that was about 2-3 years old- starter for a few days was fine

 

[Hoser]

On a side note I was still too frustrated yesterday to share this precursor anecdote - talk about a a learning curve!!!

So I actually took 3 attempts to get my yeast starter going. My first attempt I mixed the LDME and water in the flask, started the boil and then read in info from G&G that I should stir the wort to ensure the malt doesn't cake at the bottom giving a burnt flavour to the yeast. So..... I decided to stick a spoon into the flask to stir the boiling wort. Hmmmm.... physics 101 - a boiling liquid will move faster and evaporate via the aperture. And what do I do - displace the opening with my hand and spoon! Suddenly I have wort ALL OVER MY KITCHEN! Just exploded everywhere!

Ok on to next attempt. Same start - have wort boiling. Then following the instructions on the yeast nutrient pack I added the yeast nutrient to the flask 10 minutes before end of boil. Given the other instructions online say to boil for 15 minutes, obviously it's already boiling. What happens? Once again - KABOOM!! The yeast nutrient addition forced yet another massive boilover!

So after spending 90 minutes making wasted wort and cleaning my kitchen, I finally make the yeast starter correctly on attempt 3!

Good use of a Saturday night!

 

[haysie]

Hoser, the joys of experiencing what not to add when and whys of boiling wort . I was lucky early on, the wife cleaned my mess up.
As Bribie mentioned and others dont bank on a krausen, if you have some foam or the hiss coming from your foil cap after a good swirl all is good.
Have to disagree with Felten, Dec2010 OLD? No way.

 

[felten]

Not saying it's too old to work, I'm sure people have used packs far older , just the older it is the more time it can take for the pack to swell and see any activity in the starter. Also putting the numbers into the calculator puts it at 50% viability left, so you would need a larger starter depending on the beer.

 

[dr K]

The "best before" date on whitelabs is four momths after manufacture, wyeast state a six month from date of of mfg.
These figures relate to the last date (assumming the yeast has been stored correctly) that it is viable/pitchable for us5 gallons about 18 litres of wort.
Starters are agreat idea, even for fresh yeast but do not expect Mt Vesuvius, in fact you should have very little apparent activity, quite simply as you have a relativly small amount of sugar.
When you make a starter you want to make yeast, when you make beer you want to make beer not yeast (though of course you will as a by-product.

K

 

[Hoser]

Thanks folks. After all that I had to pull the plug on making beer tonight cuz I left the grains I planned to steep at G&G after buying them yesterday. Can't say this weekend went ummm... smoothly.

And to top it off last Wednesday night the plastic bin I was using to keep my last wort cool cracked and leaked 23-30L into my carpet overnight!

I think one day I'll look back, laugh and write a book.


Oh and from everything I read, an extra day for the starter yeast is fine? I'm keeping the aluminum foil lid on top and I'm shaking it intermittently while storing in dark (and relatively cool) place.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Even though there is no krausen in the starter, it should still be viable, unless you pitched it in at a high temp..but even a high temp, say 30*c wont kill it..

Just put the whole starter in the wort, it will fire if viable. If you can detect small bubbles in your starter you have good yeast. The bubbles will be tiny.

It may take a few days to fire in your fermenter, but that is OK. You are better of pitching the yeast early into the fermenter so the yeast can take over before any infections do

I have used heaps of liquids, so dont panic, you will need to get used to how they work

 

[donburke]

by the way, last week i had a wy1026 dated 6 dec, took about 24 hours to fully swell and then took about 12 hours to reach a vigorous ferment in a 2 litre starter

if you aint brewing for a few days let the starter finish off, let the yeast settle, tip the liquid out except for a little, swirl the yeast up and then pitch it,

 

[Hoser]

Thanks. I'm brewing tomorrow night which will be 48hrs. I'll keep an eye on the starter. If it's still fermenting I'll just tip the whole thing in. Otherwise I'll empty out the fermented beer.

Cheers!