Liquid Vs Dry Yeast - Im Converted - Should I Be?

[Wolfy]

without pointing fingers the likes of boss ( or any other bussiness provider )has more to gain by the sale of a smack pack than piss hand poorly rated dried yeast
just ask mr chris white

The only money I've given to Mr Chris White is is well deserved royalties for co-authoring a very useful book, and since he's also provided much useful information on various pod-casts and other freely available sources on the Internet I do not begrudge him that money at all.
I also stand behind what I said earlier in this thread: BOTH dry and wet yeasts have their place and appropriate usages, to simply dismiss or disregard one or the other is being shortsighted.

These dry yeasts are becoming very expensive though at around $6-7 a packet, no slanting no splitting doesnt seem to make much sense when one can split a liquid and have 1st gen yeast over and over again, for a dry one has to run the risk of slurrying.

Most people don't consider a starter with dry yeast because in the past it's been relatively inexpensive, but it might be in interesting exercise to use only 1/4 of a dry yeast pack and step up a starter as one would do with a liquid yeast.

 

[stux]

this is how brew day unfolds
mash in get things organised for rests
rehydrate in cooled boiled water the correct amount of yeast
wait for activity while mashing
add some cooled wort from run off while sparging
this gets yeast happy
boil as per normal

You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?

 

[bconnery]

You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?

No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

just my 2c.

I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.

Question: does anyone make a 1.5 litre starter from dried yeast and pore of two lots of 250ml into bottles and pitch the rest? good way to save coin and better than using fermenter slurry.


PS lets not take this thread to speedie VS the world

 

[Jazzafish]

Yeast is awesome, keep it happy and it will keep you happy.

Hey All,

Have been brewing for a few years now and am addicted beyond belief. I am an AG brewer with a 3 tier setup. Nothing crazy.

Up until the last 6 months I have always used dry yeast. I found it cheaper and easier - which I liked.

My beer was always OK and I was always frustrated by this. I tried water chemistry, PH modification with salts, longer mashes, simpler recipes and always the same result - 'just ok - good beer'.

The catalyst for change was when I made a coopers pale ale clone using a culture of yeast from the bottom of a coopers stubbie - This beer was much better then good - it was great. I became a temporary alcoholic and drank the keg on my own in 13 days - yes thats a 19 litre keg in 13 days (1.46 Litres a DAY!!!!!!!!!) - scary.

Being a drunk aside, this was great beer and the only thing I changed was the yeast. Next brew I did I bought a wyeast 1272 and made a 2L starter and same deal - GREAT beer. I then bought the book 'Yeast' and read it cover to cover it then affirmed what I had just discovered - YEAST IS VERY VERY VERY VERY important to the beer you make.

Now for the point of this post...

Can dry yeast produce GREAT beer? People on these forums speak of US-05 all the time. Ross at CB stocks a massive range of dry yeast. I NEVER rehydrated my dry yeast. Could that have been my biggest fault?

What are peoples preference? I dont think I will ever go back to dry yeast. Saving a few bucks and some time for me is not worth it if after all the effort of AG brewing you end up with 'just ok beer'. Im a convert to liquid yeasts and I cannot get over the range an flexibility they offer my brewing - I have really stepped up now that I use liquid.

Cheers.

Now to put forward my observations and results from my own brewing experience. You can make great beer from fresh yeast weather it is dry or not. Aside from the obvious, there are more strains available in liquid format, so more choice in flavour with liquid. But in a side by side comparison between similar strains there is little difference. The important thing is to pay attention to your pitching rate and yeast health. I have a lot of success using the pitching rate calculator on Mr Malty.

To use dry yeast successfully, I find you need to condition the dry yeast to suit your brew. Hydrating is very important, most of the material in the packet contains suitable yeast but there is also yeast that is dead or unhealthy from the dehydrating process. There are also nutrients in the packet, so it makes sense to dehydrate the dried yeast before pitching. The yeast will have better access to the nutrients in a smaller volume of liquid. They will absorb the nutrients and froth up to tell you they are keen to ferment your beer. When you sprinkle on the top, the dead or unhealthy yeast drop to the bottom along with some of the nutrients. The healthy yeast that remains have to work hard to ferment your wort, and as a result you under pitch your beer.

Pitching rate is often the difference in a good and great beer.

 

[Jazzafish]

just my 2c.

I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.

Question: does anyone make a 1.5 litre starter from dried yeast and pore of two lots of 250ml into bottles and pitch the rest? good way to save coin and better than using fermenter slurry.


PS lets not take this thread to speedie VS the world

Some people poo poo this as there is a small contamination chance in dried yeast due to the dehydration process. But there are plenty of commercial breweries out there that maintain yeast that were originally dry yeast and are very successful and happy with the beer. So why not do it yourself?

Personally I would rinse the slurry and divide that, but do what works for you. Don't fix something that isn't broken.

 

[goomboogo]

Some people poo poo this as there is a small contamination chance in dried yeast due to the dehydration process. But there are plenty of commercial breweries out there that maintain yeast that were originally dry yeast and are very successful and happy with the beer. So why not do it yourself?

Personally I would rinse the slurry and divide that, but do what works for you. Don't fix something that isn't broken.

I could be wrong but I assumed such breweries would utilise an acid wash as part of their yeast management program.

 

[goomboogo]

No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.

But he does say, "add some cooled wort from run off while sparging". This step comes after, "rehydrate in cooled boiled water the correct amount of yeast". It's not clear whether the wort is being boiled prior to adding it to the rehydrated yeast. If it isn't being boiled then I agree with Stux that it is poor practice.

 

[stux]

No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.

"add some cooled wort from run off while sparging"

sounds like he's adding some unpasteurized wort to the rehydrated yeast so that it can get going while he's doing the boil/cool

 

[bconnery]

"add some cooled wort from run off while sparging"

sounds like he's adding some unpasteurized wort to the rehydrated yeast so that it can get going while he's doing the boil/cool

It's true, he does say that, which isn't necessarily a good idea.
But you said:

You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?

so I thought you were confused about what he was doing, as in rehydrating, mainly due to his interesting sentence structure, as opposed to questioning his overall method...

Anyways, just to throw in my 0.00000002 (reduced because it's exactly the same as what many have said) I use both. I like the convenience of dry and the range of liquid. I think you can make great beer with dried yeast and I've tasted many commercial and homebrews that bear up this opinion.

 

[browndog]

just my 2c.

I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.

Question: does anyone make a 1.5 litre starter from dried yeast and pore of two lots of 250ml into bottles and pitch the rest? good way to save coin and better than using fermenter slurry.


PS lets not take this thread to speedie VS the world

Why is it better than using fermenter slurry?

 

[speedie]

as stated i do use unboiled wort for promoting activty and have never had any problems at all
that cooled wort was up to 80 degrees
you would have more potential infection from poor yeast handling than from cooled sparged wort

 

[Brad Churchill]

I supose at the end of the day the best way to solve the puzzle of dry versus liquid is experimentation.
Don't take anyone else's word on the matter.

Try dry yeast.

Try liquid yeast.

Rehydrate dry yeast.

Make sure your pitching rate is right as other's have mentioned, and if you split your brew three ways (if you can be arsed but this is the kind of experimenting I like to do) then you can pitch all of the above into the same brew split into equal portions in seperate fermenters.

This way every step of the process is the same except for the yeast used.

You can then decide for yourself which yeast yields the best results for the beer you are making.

Hope that made sense. Have been enjoying a few brews :icon_drunk:

Cheers

Brad

 

[rude]

Well once I discovered liquid I was stoked & have used it heaps still will

Thought I'de never go back to dried but I have cause there are more options there now.

Im getting lazy & I have a bit of coin, so if say, Im doing an APA 25 litres I'll just pitch 2 packets of dried us 05 no rehydrating here.

Lazy *uck I know but I want to make the best beer I can & Im under the pump so brewing is getting hard at the moment

Am I over pitching ????? doubt it but thought Ide throw it out there

 

[Jazzafish]

I could be wrong but I assumed such breweries would utilise an acid wash as part of their yeast management program.

You missed my point... the dehydrating process allows for a contamination possibility. Acid washing cannot solve this.

 

[Jazzafish]

I supose at the end of the day the best way to solve the puzzle of dry versus liquid is experimentation.
Don't take anyone else's word on the matter.

Try dry yeast.

Try liquid yeast.

Rehydrate dry yeast.

Make sure your pitching rate is right as other's have mentioned, and if you split your brew three ways (if you can be arsed but this is the kind of experimenting I like to do) then you can pitch all of the above into the same brew split into equal portions in seperate fermenters.

This way every step of the process is the same except for the yeast used.

You can then decide for yourself which yeast yields the best results for the beer you are making.

Hope that made sense. Have been enjoying a few brews :icon_drunk:

Cheers

Brad

Absolutely,

split the same batch, like a blonde ale. Use WLP001, WY1056 and US05.

Watch the lag times, fermentation time, final attenuation, clarity/flocculation and the important taste test. Then repeat with the second and third generations to see how durable they are.

 

[goomboogo]

You missed my point... the dehydrating process allows for a contamination possibility. Acid washing cannot solve this.

You are correct. I missed your point. I thought you were talking about subsequent batches.

 

[Dylo]

Ive used many dry yeasts and dabbled with liquids. Havent had much luck with the liquids unfortunately, ending up with a few dead viles from a group buy, (wouldnt even take with starters). Also have had a couple of mates that experience trouble with very slow (dead) smack packs. This is my only for reason for sticking with the dried yeasts for now. I have turned out some cracking brews with them and cant complain as they are pretty much fool proof.

I always re-hydrate them. This may help me out, but without side by side brews its hard to tell. I actually just did a coopers style PA and wanted to use some re-pitched US05 slurry and see if i could get it to give me some of the esters that the coopers yeast produces. I washed it and purposly under-pitched (using the pitching rate calculator mentioned above) and fermented warm to see what US05 can do if you stress it. It came out really well. Not exactly the coopers twang but managed to transform the yeast into something its not usually associated with.

So i guess it comes down to your personal preference, your brewing ability and mainly what you want from the yeast.

Cheers,
Dylo

 

[bear09]

After 4 pages and a heap of interesting replies I think I have the answers to my questions. Bloody excellent people.

 

[Nick JD]

Ive used many dry yeasts and dabbled with liquids. Havent had much luck with the liquids unfortunately, ending up with a few dead viles from a group buy, (wouldnt even take with starters). Also have had a couple of mates that experience trouble with very slow (dead) smack packs. This is my only for reason for sticking with the dried yeasts for now. I have turned out some cracking brews with them and cant complain as they are pretty much fool proof.

I'm a big dry yeast user, but;

There are a lot of styles ya just can't brew without the liquid yeasts. I've got a Hoegaarden Clone going at the moment that just can't be done without 3944. The wheatbeer smackpacks swell like dead cows and then spend the next three days trying to climb out of the fermenter.

But some of the Wyeast Lagers are tortoises - and some peoplethink they've smacked the pack, but they haven't - and then they think they have dead yeast. I've never had a failed Wyeast.

For some strains their just ain't anything better than Wyeast.

I get at least 6, 18-19L batches from a pack, so the cost is negligible.