Late Hopping And Nochilling It Can Be Done!

[argon]

Typically when I NoChill I calculate all hop additions as plus 15 minutes.

But the one thing that NoChilling doesnt allow me to do, is add those really late kettle hops to get that big flavour and aroma I would normally get from a 10min, 5min, 0min addition that was rapid chilled.

Now, I have come up with a way to add these late hop additions and still NoChill, that is no harder than making a yeast starter.

To qualifyI have used a French Press in the past, but it can be a real pain using pellet hops, as they swell up so much. In my opinion French Press is most effective using plugs or flowers.

Now I recently cubed a Black IPA, where I did my usual hop additions with the intention of adding 15 minutes to each hop addition, then cubed as normal.

When it came to pitching time I changed things up a bit because I wanted more late hop presence and wasnt keen on using the French Press.
The process that I went through was like this;

Firstly I put the 17L cube in the fridge overnight to drop the temperature down to 4C
I then boiled up 3L of some more wort at 1040 (3L and 300g LDME)
I boiled this for 15 minutes adding a 10 min hop addition, a 5 minute hop addition and took it off the stove
I then took the 3L in the stock pot to the fermenter and set it aside
I added the 17L of 4C wort to the fermenter (I always pour through a 500micron hopsock to filter out a bit of debris from the cube)
I then added a 0min addition of hops to the 3L of near boiling wort
Then almost immediately say 10 to 20 seconds later poured the 3L into the 17L of wort through the hopsock filtering out all the hop debris
Gave the fermenter a bit of shake/stir to make sure it was all mixed up
Now I had 20L of 18C wort in the fermenter all aerated and ready to pitch
I then threw my 1L of active starter on top
This gave me 21L of 1072 wort ready to go into the fermenting fridge at 18C
Glad wrap on, attach the temp probe (confirmed 18C), shut the door and walk away.

So I figure that this process is rapid chilling for the late hop additions. As soon as the hot wort integrates with the cold wort it all comes in at the right pitching temp for my yeast of 18C. Its important to note and calculate that; 17L @ 4C + 3L @ 90C = 20L @ 18C

Sweet now I can no chill and enjoy late kettle hop flavours and aromas.

Ill report back on how that all turns out as its now a few days fermenting with a nice healthy Krausen that took off within 12 hours and smelling nice.

:icon_cheers:

 

[MarkBastard]

Great idea mate. Even better if you say did a double batch pale ale with only the bittering hops and a generic base and then you can split that into two batches with different late hops when fermenting.

Because you only need 34 litres of wort to do this double batch, it may be possible for people with smaller pots to pump it out, making it even nicer.

One problem though of course is that you're using a fair amount of malt extract which may go against an AG ethos.

Could always buy some 3L 'cubes' and make up heaps of base malt 1.040 wort in a batch with no hop additions and store in these 3L cubes for later use, to keep it AG if you care enough.

 

[Phoney]

That would work so far as adding your late hop additions, but with that much stuffing I reckon it would be easier and quicker to chill it properly, to be honest.. Not to mention you now have 17L of wort from your desired grain bill + 4L of LDME & water. How is that going to affect your malt profile?

 

[argon]

Great idea mate. Even better if you say did a double batch pale ale with only the bittering hops and a generic base and then you can split that into two batches with different late hops when fermenting.

Because you only need 34 litres of wort to do this double batch, it may be possible for people with smaller pots to pump it out, making it even nicer.

One problem though of course is that you're using a fair amount of malt extract which may go against an AG ethos.

Could always buy some 3L 'cubes' and make up heaps of base malt 1.040 wort in a batch with no hop additions and store in these 3L cubes for later use, to keep it AG if you care enough.

Yep i always do double batches... 2 times 17L cubes (old FWKs) then top up into fermenter with starter to 21L.

The point of this exercise here for me is 2 fold. 1 to see if i do get a significant increase in late hop flavour and aroma. And 2 to see if i like the result and adjust as necessary on the next batch.

Not a bad idea re cubing a small amount that can be re-boiled for the late hopping. I figure, at least for this batch, cause it's supposed to be 1072OG that the extra LDME won't make much difference.

 

[Bribie G]

Not sure about the LDME which could undermine the basic grain component of the brew, but do you reckon it would work with the 300g or so of da sugaz I often add to UK type special bitters? Lately I have been adding the sugar to the cube to give it a good scalding so your method seems equivalent?

 

[MarkBastard]

Not sure about the LDME which could undermine the basic grain component of the brew, but do you reckon it would work with the 300g or so of da sugaz I often add to UK type special bitters? Lately I have been adding the sugar to the cube to give it a good scalding so your method seems equivalent?

Don't "they" recommend not boiling hops with sugar though? From what I understand it's ideally 1.040 of malt sugarz not table sugar.

 

[Bribie G]

Do the hops know the difference, little green whores that they are ? B)

 

[felten]

the lower pH from malt helps with extraction IIRC

 

[argon]

Not sure about the LDME which could undermine the basic grain component of the brew, but do you reckon it would work with the 300g or so of da sugaz I often add to UK type special bitters? Lately I have been adding the sugar to the cube to give it a good scalding so your method seems equivalent?

Sounds like next experiment i will be running off 3L of wort for boiling up and adding late hops.

I guess also... i added 3L of 1040... doesn't mean that 3L is the set amount. 500ml or 1L would still be enough to add some late hops.. just for me i need 3L for the volume and the fact i added 135g worth of hops in the last 10mins.

Maybe next time i'll be doing it with a much smaller amount.

 

[bum]

For what it is worth, cube hops leave stacks of aroma (YMMV).

 

[Acasta]

What about, doing the same thing, but instead of boiling hops in LDME, just draw off your 3L of wort and boil hops in that with the same process?
Thanks what i've been doing.

 

[argon]

What about, doing the same thing, but instead of boiling hops in LDME, just draw off your 3L of wort and boil hops in that with the same process?
Thanks what i've been doing.

Yep nothing wrong with that... probably the ideal solution IMO. Just have to "cube" that 3L until it's ready for pitching with the rest of the batch

 

[black_labb]

I feel that the cube hops add alot of aroma, but its not the only way.

you can cube the full amount and then pitch most into the fermentor and keep a couple litres to boil up with these additions, cool (a pot in the sink) and then add it to the vessel. I dont strain it as it all settles out but feel free to if you like. just remember to sanitise the strainer/hopsock whatever thoroughly. thats just a variation on youre method but it works the same. I've done mini boils to add hops like a hop tea the same way as you mention, and even did a mini mash and boil when I wanted to add to the profile of a beer when it fermented down to a lower fg than i wanted.

 

[ekul]

I reckon this would be easier.

Chill cube (i use 23L ones)
Pour out 4L into boiling pot.
Seal cube (obviously)

Bring wort to the boil and do hop additions
Pour cube into fermenter ~20L
Pour hot wort into fermeter ~ 3L

Pitch yeast and away you go.

No malt extract and your cold wort has only been sitting around for 15mins or so without yeast. The infection probablilty is nothing compared to chilling wort for 30-40mins and pitching yeast

Although i've just tried cube hopping and that does give a fair bit of flavour and aroma, and if you add a little dry hop you are rockin :super:

 

[Acasta]

Yep nothing wrong with that... probably the ideal solution IMO. Just have to "cube" that 3L until it's ready for pitching with the rest of the batch

Well, you could cube it with the whole batch then pour off 3L for boiling. I use a ice bath when i do it, but if you wanna use your (smarter) method of varying temps it'd work better. Im going to try this soon.

 

[Hatchy]

Has anyone used a pitch addition of hops? I'm thinking about throwing in my aroma hops when I pitch rather than putting them in the cube. I'm thinking (purely theoretical, no science to back this up) that the ferment will get rid of some of the grassiness that I sometimes get from dry hops but will not contribute any bitterness. I'm happy to be wrong if someone's tried it & it sucks. I'm happy to try it if no one else has.

I'd also like to try Argon's method. I'm not too worried about using a bit of extract, I still use it for starters & a little bit of extract for a late hop addition doesn't seem to be too much different to me.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

if you'd like to combine this technique with a way to up your brewhouse efficiency (depending on how you brew in the first place i guess) you could try using wort recovered from your kettle trub.

Fill cube as normal with clean clear wort, seal and set aside to cool.
Take what you have left in your kettle and tip it into a a big funnel lined with calico or as i do, a tea towel. it will run cloudy for a little bit, then slow down and clear up to very bright - Recirc the cloudy initial runnings back into the funnel. Now you should be collecting nothing but very clear wort... but you will be collecting it very very slowly.

Walk away for a few hours or overnight. At any rate, by the time your cube is cool... you will have collected an amount of clean, clear wort that is not only exactly the same as your main wort - but is a bonus to your efficiency as it would normally have gone down the drain.

Boil your hops up in that stuff. the boil will take care of any bugs which have started to get hold during the long filtering process. Taste first of course to make sure nothing drastic has happened.

i was doing this regularly to use as starter wort... but since i changed my kettle configuration I dont have enough loss to trub to collect a useful amount any more. if you do - then this is a way to use it and also try out this method of getting some hop character into your beer.

this technique is exactly the same as coffee plunger hopping if you think about it... you are just using a hop bag instead of the French Press. Aside from that its exactly the same... and we know that coffee plunger hopping works. So this will too. you would get a bit more bang for buck if you could convince yourself to add the hops later on in the ferment after things had slowed down a little bit.

TB

 

[[email protected]]

Following through on what TB says about collecting from the trub, has anyone frozen the collected wort as a way of preserving to use at a later date? And if so how long do they last? This maybe an option for people who are trying to preserve the 2-3L for doing the late additions boil without having to "cube" this small sample etc.

I would like to do the same for starter wort but only brew every 4-6 weeks and would need to store for a reasonable period.

Maybe let the 2-3L sample cool and place in a sanitised fruit/soft drink PET bottle and put in the freezer then defrost when you need to pitch?

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Following through on what TB says about collecting from the trub, has anyone frozen the collected wort as a way of preserving to use at a later date? And if so how long do they last? This maybe an option for people who are trying to preserve the 2-3L for doing the late additions boil without having to "cube" this small sample etc.

I would like to do the same for starter wort but only brew every 4-6 weeks and would need to store for a reasonable period.

Maybe let the 2-3L sample cool and place in a sanitised fruit/soft drink PET bottle and put in the freezer then defrost when you need to pitch?

I no chill the trub wort once filtered, basically reboil the wort and fill the glass 375ml bottles right to the brim, normally sucks it back about a centimeter down the bottle neck, no issues with breakages or infection to date. Although I'm always a little nervous as they cool, normally leave them in a empty sink just in case they break

 

[Dazza_devil]

Walk away for a few hours or overnight. At any rate, by the time your cube is cool... you will have collected an amount of clean, clear wort that is not only exactly the same as your main wort - but is a bonus to your efficiency as it would normally have gone down the drain.



i was doing this regularly to use as starter wort... but since i changed my kettle configuration I dont have enough loss to trub to collect a useful amount any more. if you do - then this is a way to use it and also try out this method of getting some hop character into your beer.


TB

The kettle trub may settle out in a sealed container in the fridge just as quick as you could strain it, depending on your method, and just decant it maybe, just a thought.

Off topic, how did you manage to minimise your kettle trub by changing your kettle configuration?