Late Hopping And Nochilling It Can Be Done!

[argon]

That sounds awesome!~

Any chance of a recipe?

Yeah mate here's the recipe... Black IPA (second brew of the day) although, my waxing lyrical skills in reference to this beer are better defined than my brewing skills :blink: ... i like it anyway.

 

[Phoney]

Thanks again for that argon

Back to the OP though, I gave this method a go yesterday on an IPA where my starter wasnt ready and it was getting too late at night for chilling normally etc.. Instead I no-chill cubed the entire wort, chilled it to 4C, then poured off 4L into a pot today and boiled it and added the 10 & 0 min additions in.

All went fine, but I just question this;

I then added a 0min addition of hops to the 3L of near boiling wort
Then almost immediately say 10 to 20 seconds later poured the 3L into the 17L of wort through the hopsock filtering out all the hop debris

Is 10 to 20 seconds of exposure really enough time for the hop oils to seep out into your wort, before you filter them out again? Given that in a normal brew after you add your flameout additions and then whirlpool for at least 10 minutes.

I couldnt bare the sight of 100g of hops going down the sink and losing any of their potential flavours so I chucked the whole pot - unfiltered - into the fermenter. Would be an interesting experiment to make though I think: a) all hop debris added to fermenter with wort vs B) hop debris filtered out of kettle runnings and not added into fermenter.

What do you reckon?

 

[outbreak]

I tried this method on sunday as I have been wanting more hop flavour/aroma from my APA's and IPA's. My 10 min additions were cube hopped and I did a quasi flame out addition in the last 5 mins by gradually adding 50g of Galaxy to 3L of boiling wort. Well I cannot believe how the hydrometer samples smell and taste! I haven't made anything quite this full of aroma and flavour yet.

 

[argon]

Thanks again for that argon

Back to the OP though, I gave this method a go yesterday on an IPA where my starter wasnt ready and it was getting too late at night for chilling normally etc.. Instead I no-chill cubed the entire wort, chilled it to 4C, then poured off 4L into a pot today and boiled it and added the 10 & 0 min additions in.

All went fine, but I just question this;



Is 10 to 20 seconds of exposure really enough time for the hop oils to seep out into your wort, before you filter them out again? Given that in a normal brew after you add your flameout additions and then whirlpool for at least 10 minutes.

I couldnt bare the sight of 100g of hops going down the sink and losing any of their potential flavours so I chucked the whole pot - unfiltered - into the fermenter. Would be an interesting experiment to make though I think: a) all hop debris added to fermenter with wort vs B) hop debris filtered out of kettle runnings and not added into fermenter.

What do you reckon?

Good to hear you gave it a go mate... i'm sure it'll turn out great.

As for the 10 to 20 second steeping of hops, i consider this to be almost the same way a hop back would work. Essentially very hot wort will dissolve out the aroma compounds then rapidly chilling the wort, locking all the aromas in.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Good to hear you gave it a go mate... i'm sure it'll turn out great.

As for the 10 to 20 second steeping of hops, i consider this to be almost the same way a hop back would work. Essentially very hot wort will dissolve out the aroma compounds then rapidly chilling the wort, locking all the aromas in.

I'm currently fermenting a double black ipa and didn't really bitter enough during the boil. Has anyone tried this method for adding bitterness? Doing a 60min mini boil, how would you compensate for evaporation? I have been trying to work out how many IBUs I would be adding to my batch by using a dilution calculator, is there a better way?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[seamad]

I leave the lid on my pot for mini boils to reduce evap loss, afterall the wort has already been boiled to drive off the nasties.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

I'm currently fermenting a double black ipa and didn't really bitter enough during the boil. Has anyone tried this method for adding bitterness? Doing a 60min mini boil, how would you compensate for evaporation? I have been trying to work out how many IBUs I would be adding to my batch by using a dilution calculator, is there a better way?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

I have done it successfully, even when fermentation was almost complete.

I only boiled hops for 45mins in 1L of 1040 wort made up with ldme.
I just use Beersmith to calculate the IBUs.

I think its this thread? where argon has some workings for figuring how how to add your late hops ibus to the original wort.

Edit: nah it must be the other one thats around somewhere.
More With regards to using the late hopping on your existing wort, i have also diluted with boiled water for a slightly longer boil, i plug my volumes and gravity into BS to get an idea of hop utilization, this does not take into account the existing ibus being boiled for longer in the original wort though, which you can get a rough idea of using BS as well.

Hers is that other thread " the guide" further to this one.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Cheers,

When you say that you use Beersmith to calculate IBU do you simply add the new hops (and boil time) to the original recipe to see the difference? My original gravity was high (IIPA high!!) and if I'm only boiling in 1040 wort my numbers (utilisation) wouldn't really add up. I could of course increase the gravity on my miniboil to match my recipe but that would a) put too much DME into my AG brew and also B) add to fermentables when I already overshot my gravity by 10 points!!

I have done it successfully, even when fermentation was almost complete.

I only boiled hops for 45mins in 1L of 1040 wort made up with ldme.
I just use Beersmith to calculate the IBUs.

I think its this thread? where argon has some workings for figuring how how to add your late hops ibus to the original wort.

Edit: nah it must be the other one thats around somewhere.
More With regards to using the late hopping on your existing wort, i have also diluted with boiled water for a slightly longer boil, i plug my volumes and gravity into BS to get an idea of hop utilization, this does not take into account the existing ibus being boiled for longer in the original wort though, which you can get a rough idea of using BS as well.

Hers is that other thread " the guide" further to this one.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Cheers,

When you say that you use Beersmith to calculate IBU do you simply add the new hops (and boil time) to the original recipe to see the difference? My original gravity was high (IIPA high!!) and if I'm only boiling in 1040 wort my numbers (utilisation) wouldn't really add up. I could of course increase the gravity on my miniboil to match my recipe but that would a) put too much DME into my AG brew and also B) add to fermentables when I already overshot my gravity by 10 points!!

I am having trouble today putting things into words.........

Say you take 2L of your 2ipa @ 1075? Depending how hard and long you boil your 2L pot, evaporation can happen pretty quick.
So if you wanted to boil for another 45mins for more bittering, i would dilute the gravity somewhere back near to you original pre boil gravity, dilution tool on BS.

To get the ibu calculations in BS from late hops, i would usually just scale down to a 2L recipe, add how ever longer i am going to boil to the boil time.
Then punch in 10, 5 and 0 min additions of hops, then use argons calculations in the other thread to work out what it will end up adding to the total batch.

I think as long as you get your gravity readings matching or close enough to what BS is making the calculations on, then it should be close enough.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

eidt: hmm seem dingus never posted the link to the other thread eh...
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=786420

 

[manticle]

Firstly I put the 17L cube in the fridge overnight to drop the temperature down to 4C
I then boiled up 3L of some more wort at 1040 (3L and 300g LDME)
I boiled this for 15 minutes adding a 10 min hop addition, a 5 minute hop addition and took it off the stove
I then took the 3L in the stock pot to the fermenter and set it aside
I added the 17L of 4C wort to the fermenter (I always pour through a 500micron hopsock to filter out a bit of debris from the cube)
I then added a 0min addition of hops to the 3L of near boiling wort
Then almost immediately say 10 to 20 seconds later poured the 3L into the 17L of wort through the hopsock filtering out all the hop debris
Gave the fermenter a bit of shake/stir to make sure it was all mixed up
Now I had 20L of 18C wort in the fermenter all aerated and ready to pitch
I then threw my 1L of active starter on top
This gave me 21L of 1072 wort ready to go into the fermenting fridge at 18C
Glad wrap on, attach the temp probe (confirmed 18C), shut the door and walk away.

Just to add a suggestion:

I stop draining my kettle into my cube once I start getting what I consider too much break material and trub entering the tap.

However there is usually some clear wort left which it's not possible to separate then and there. I drain most of this into an erlenmeyer (could use any sanitary vessel - I have used a plastic jug before), cover and refrigerate overnight.

Next day I decant the clear wort as the break material settles out. I reboil for sanitary reasons and either use for starter wort if I'm not in a rush or just add back to the fermenter, usually between 1 and 2 litres.

Your method could be used in conjunctionto double up for late hop aroma additions.