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Lagering Temp For Black Rock Cider

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Diggles

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My cider is about to finish fermenting and looks, actually tastes like a pearler, so was thinking what temp hould I lager it at? Usually I shove it in a keg and place in the spare room without much thought for 2 weeks.

As an additional side question, how many apples does it usually take to make cider of 23L?

Cheers

Diggles
 

chefeffect

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You can lager cider?? never thought of that before, might be worth a look. Did you use a lager yeast? if so it depends how long you want to lager for, colder takes longer generally 3 deg 5-6 weeks and 5 deg 3-4. But best to taste as you go and see when its ready.

Depends on the juicing method, not sure what a home cold press juicer gets but I should try it out in mine might take all day though. If you use a wine press you get around 50% yield from the apples, and with a really good press the type that requires making cheeses you can get from 605% up to 75% if you have a hydraulic press. I plan to build press this winter for next years harvest.
 

Diggles

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You can lager cider?? never thought of that before, might be worth a look. Did you use a lager yeast? if so it depends how long you want to lager for, colder takes longer generally 3 deg 5-6 weeks and 5 deg 3-4. But best to taste as you go and see when its ready.

Depends on the juicing method, not sure what a home cold press juicer gets but I should try it out in mine might take all day though. If you use a wine press you get around 50% yield from the apples, and with a really good press the type that requires making cheeses you can get from 605% up to 75% if you have a hydraulic press. I plan to build press this winter for next years harvest.

I'm assuming you lager cider, but I can't think why not, some of the yeast will still clean it up I think, plus it works for everything else....why not cider?

Diggles
 

chefeffect

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I'm assuming you lager cider, but I can't think why not, some of the yeast will still clean it up I think, plus it works for everything else....why not cider?

Diggles
Because lagering requires a yeast that will work at cold conditions and not go dormant. What yeast did you use? You can cold condition a cider with an ale yeast but it wont be a true lager. I honestly was wondering if you used a lager yeast, sounds like a good idea.
 

bum

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Semantics aside, your cider will benefit from some "storage" time of some description. The way you usually treat your beers should work fine - even longer is often good for ciders. If you can do it cold then it could end up clearer - but I made that kit a while back and it was pretty damned bright at the end of primary, IIRC.
 

manticle

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Because lagering requires a yeast that will work at cold conditions and not go dormant. What yeast did you use? You can cold condition a cider with an ale yeast but it wont be a true lager. I honestly was wondering if you used a lager yeast, sounds like a good idea.

Lagering means to store cold which you can do with any beverage. I do it with ales (you might call it cold conditioning), lagers that have used a lager yeast (or strain of saccharomyces carlsbergensis) and ciders.

Personal experience but I find ciders fermented at the low end of the temp range recommended for the yeast of choice, coupled with lagering for a week (minimum) or more really helps a cider along.

To answer the OP (from my experience only): If you want to squeeze juice from apples to make 23 L cider you are looking at anything between 30 and 50+ kg apples, fruit and equipment dependent. Different apples will produce different amounts of juice and the efficiency of your scratting and pressing equipment will also have a major effect.
 

chefeffect

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Lagering means to store cold which you can do with any beverage. I do it with ales (you might call it cold conditioning), lagers that have used a lager yeast (or strain of saccharomyces carlsbergensis) and ciders.
Lagering does mean to store, or cellar, true. So do you lager your ales at a range where the yeast is still working? Or are you cold conditioning?

I think semantic a side is a good idea :D
 

manticle

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You lager a lager when it's hit FG, not before.

Same with ales and all other beverages.

Call it cold conditioning if you like but it happens as a maturation phase, not a fermentation phase.
 

manticle

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Maybe. 1st sentence says ".........synonym Saccharomyces carlsbergensis" so presumably both are acceptable.
 

chefeffect

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You lager a lager when it's hit FG, not before.
Really, I thought I read some where that the lager yeast actually keeps working at the lower temps, cleans up some sugars the ale yeasts wont. My lagers still tick over and drop maybe 4-6 points at low temp.
 

manticle

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I don't put them into lager when they have 4-6 points to drop. I lager them when they are finished and rested (diacetyl, acetaldehyde etc)

Fermentation wise they will possibly still keep fermenting at 1 degree but fermenting is not lagering. They will ferment some sugars ale yeast won't but don't need to be at 1 degree in order to do so. Ciders will ferment right out if allowed to do so so the difference between lager and ale yeasts is less relevant.

The yeast (both ale and lager) will, as far as I'm aware, still help condition the beer at lower temps but my point is simply a counterpoint to your post which said 'You can lager cider?? never thought of that before, might be worth a look'.

All I'm saying is - of course you can lager it. You can lager anything. Lagering is not the same as fermenting cool/cold (although I do ferment my ciders cool/cold and THEN lager).
 

Diggles

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I don't put them into lager when they have 4-6 points to drop. I lager them when they are finished and rested (diacetyl, acetaldehyde etc)

Fermentation wise they will possibly still keep fermenting at 1 degree but fermenting is not lagering. They will ferment some sugars ale yeast won't but don't need to be at 1 degree in order to do so. Ciders will ferment right out if allowed to do so so the difference between lager and ale yeasts is less relevant.

The yeast (both ale and lager) will, as far as I'm aware, still help condition the beer at lower temps but my point is simply a counterpoint to your post which said 'You can lager cider?? never thought of that before, might be worth a look'.

All I'm saying is - of course you can lager it. You can lager anything. Lagering is not the same as fermenting cool/cold (although I do ferment my ciders cool/cold and THEN lager).

Well sounds like I do pretty much the same as you, which is good enough for me! Thanks heaps.

Diggles
 

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