Lager Time

[Mclovin]

Ok its lager brewing time. I have all the gear and no idea what i am doing. What i do know is lager yeast likes low temperature like about 10'C, so i have rigged pops old fridge with temperature control and set it to about 10'C ready for my wort. I am using munich lager yeast 2308 from wyeast, its supposed to produce nice clean crisp lagers if done correctly. My first problem is with the packaging of this product, being a first time liquid yeast user. The pack comes with a starter inside floating around with the yeast which is supposed to be ruptured by giving it a good old fasioned spanking. I tryed for about 20 minutes to break the dam thing open but with no luck. After bashing the dam thing around i decided to cut it open and have a look inside, i found the starter package unscathed and in tacked so i cut it open with my sanitised scissors.

My wort has been sitting in the fridge for 24 hrs now without any air lock movement and im in need of some serious advise from someone with lager brewing experience!

Please help me!

 

[kelbygreen]

never used liquid yeast or brewed AG but my lager took about 48 hours to kick off but it was 2 packs of S23 just sprinkled ontop of the wort

 

[GTS350]

When I smacked my Wyeast 2001 Pilsner Lager yeast , it took 3 days to kick off..

What would I do in your situation (make a starter)...
If you have a spare 2 litre PET bottle, clean and sanitise it
Then clean and sanitise your fermenter tap, drain some wort into the PET bottle (about 2/3 full).
Then add all of the remains of your smack pack (yeast+nutrient), put some sterilised gladwrap over the spout with a rubber band.
Over the next day or so, give it a shake every hour or three.

A day, maybe two, later, it should end up with a decent krausen at room temperature.
I prefer to pitch to the wort just after max krausen, I dont like to wait till its all dormant again.
Try not to stress about the fermenter sucking air in, the temp controlled fridge will probably avoid this anyway.

 

[andytork]

You are much better "stepping" the smack pack upto 2 or even 3 litres, this way it will have a good start. This usually kicks off in the normal 8 to 12 hours when the starter is big enough

There are lots of resources on here about making starters etc. If you do a lot a stirplate is a wise investment.

I pretty much continually make lagers now in a dedicated fridge

I ferment between 10 and 12 degrees for about 2 weeks, then step up to 18 or so for a couple of days for the rest, lager for at least 4 weeks, polyclar (as I no-chill), filter, keg and serve.

Andy

 

[WitWonder]

never used liquid yeast or brewed AG but my lager took about 48 hours to kick off but it was 2 packs of S23 just sprinkled ontop of the wort

No idea how this post addresses the OP at all, but anyway.

Ok its lager brewing time. I have all the gear and no idea what i am doing. What i do know is lager yeast likes low temperature like about 10'C, so i have rigged pops old fridge with temperature control and set it to about 10'C ready for my wort.

Good start.

I am using munich lager yeast 2308 from wyeast, its supposed to produce nice clean crisp lagers if done correctly. My first problem is with the packaging of this product, being a first time liquid yeast user. The pack comes with a starter inside floating around with the yeast which is supposed to be ruptured by giving it a good old fasioned spanking.

No, it's not a starter it's yeast nutrient designed to give you an indication the yeast is still good to go. Simply get the palm of one hand, locate the inner pack by pushing it into a corner and smack the other hand down on top.

I tryed for about 20 minutes to break the dam thing open but with no luck. After bashing the dam thing around i decided to cut it open and have a look inside, i found the starter package unscathed and in tacked so i cut it open with my sanitised scissors.

My old man did the same thing with a non-sanitized pair of scissors and fished it out with his fingers (bless him). The yeast survived and surprisingly no infection resulted in the beer, either.

My wort has been sitting in the fridge for 24 hrs now without any air lock movement and im in need of some serious advise from someone with lager brewing experience!

Airlock not bubbling has been done to death on this forum. Please, do a search first. I assume the gap in your post between talking about trying to smack the pack and no airlock bubbles means you pitched your yeast into your wort (into a single batch) so with that assumption in mind, 24hours is not really an overly long time to wait for a lager. Next time as others have said make a starter or ensure the pack is fresh and has swelled before pitching.

 

[kelbygreen]

my post was only suggesting that it may take more then 24hours to kick off sorry for posting but thats what I found with what I have used, as I say never used liquid yeast but thought if you didnt make a starter then it would still be alot longer then 24hours in a lager to start off.

 

[Mclovin]

Ok its best to make a starter, I can see why now! its all about lag time. Has anyone used this yeast Munich lager 2308 before?. Im hoping to get a nice clean crisp lager from it.

Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

Not a huge lot you can do, really, apart from letting the yeast breed up naturally. You should be OK if the sanitation is good. I haven't ventured into liquid lager yeasts yet, but have turned out a couple of good lagers on less forgiving yeasts, particularly S-189 dried yeast that can be fermented at around 14 degrees and allowed to rise to ale temps at the end. I've reused the yeast three times, the original pitch being both sides of a repack from Craftbrewer - and the subsequent brews using half a litre of yeast cake brought back to life with dex and LDME for a day or two before re-pitching.

I think that with lagering it's an idea to get the hang of the total process first, then refine it to the different liquid yeasts such as Urquell, etc. W - 34/70 is another tried and tested 'forgiving' dried yeast as well, I've got 2 packs ATM that I'll be pitching in one hit with my Melbourne Bitter wannabe next time I do a lager.

 

[jakub76]

Don't fret. I used the same yeast 2308 for my 1st lager...mmm malty. There was a considerable lag before any airlock activity. Provided that you've kept things clean and temperatures about right then DON'T STRESS it's going to kick off fine tomorrow.
As suggested - make a starter next time. Piece of piss. A day or two before you brew, make up a starter wort of 500ml water with 50g dried Malt Extract. Pop it into a cleaned and sanitized PET bottle and either seal with glad wrap and a rubber band or drill a hole in the lid and fit a bung and airlock - the bubbling is more satisfying.
To start the smack packs I first work the inner bladder into a corner then lay the pack on the bench and press down with the heel of my hand to rupture the nutrient pack. Usually the pack swells within an hour or two. It's a great way to get your yeast active without risking infection.
Even though you didn't make a starter your beer will still come out fine. It's been sitting there at 10 degrees while all the little yeasties multiply, it's at higher temperatures that you'll get most of the bad ester formation.
Let us know how it's going.

EDIT - p.s. 14 days at 10C then up to 12.5 for two days diacetyl rest.

 

[bcp]

Yeah, those smack packs can be slippery little suckers. Gentle pressure never worked for me - it was like chasing goldfish. So I work them into the corner and WHAM! with the heel of my hand. You think you'll break the outer pack, but you won't. They're smack packs, not squeeze packs.

 

[fraser_john]

I use the good old s-189 as well. I tend to pitch at around 14-15c, then bring temp down 2c per day as soon as I see activity. This is if I am using the fermentation fridge.

This time of year (more like in about 2-4 weeks) when the weather is cooler (max 16c) during the day, I'll just pitch the rehydrated yeast and ferment in the south/west end of shed, stays between 8c-12c.

Partigyling a bock & munich helles soon.

 

[nickel]

Does filtering quicken the lagering process?

 

[Josh]

I like Wyeast 2308. It produces clean malty lagers and is suitable for styles such as Munich Helles and Oktoberfest. However, I'm not sure it will produce the "crisp" lager you are looking for.

If you are keen to try the Wyeast smack pack again, and I am a fan, try the 2000 Budvar.

 

[manticle]

Someone should write a step by step wiki on how to break the nutrient sack in a wyeast pack.

Never had an issue myself - just slap the damn thing with the heel of your hand a few days before brewing, then leave it to swell.

@OP - as mentioned it's just yeast nutrient inside that breakable pouch. Even if it doesn't break, the rest of the liquid is perfectly viable yeast (unless something untoward has happened with storage or transit or it's just too old).

For lagers and high grav ales (1050+) - it's better to make a good size starter or use more than one pack.

 

[stew.w]

ive just brewed my first lager today, just got it into the cubes about 15 mins ago.
i'm using 2 packs of s189 and ill prbably pitch it sometime next week when my fridge is free'd up.
after the ferment has finished can i just rack it into a keg, put the lid on, not carb it and just leave it in the chest freezer with the other kegs to lager?
should i do the lid up or just leave it loose? is there any reason i cant do this?

cheers,

stewart

sorry to hijack your thread

 

[Mclovin]

Well after 5 days of patient waiting still no action. I must have got a dud pack or i killed it some how? so I made up a starter with some Saflager S-23 and chucked it in, now its away. Im keeping it at a constant 12'C in my fridge.

Im over liquid yeast! <_<

 

[manticle]

Next time a dried yeast fails you, what will you resort to then?

 

[felten]

natural fermentation?