Kinda new & eager to learn!

[Lochem]

Hey there forum!

my buddy has been homebrewing for years and i have been the lucky lab rat
so now its MY turn to learn how to brew.. since i have moved far away and can't enjoy his brewing anymore... so now it's all up to me.

I mainly like IPAs, hoppy ales, Belgian Strong Ales and Golden Ales.... the hoppier and fruitier the better... and these are what ill be brewing. I hope to stick to kegs as well and stay clear of the bottles.

looking forward to learning lots on this forum - and sharing brews!

Lochem
:chug: B)

 

[Jeltz]

As per your post on the other thread, BIAB is an easy in to brewing with grain, you can keep it really simple and still get great beer. If you are aiming for 23L brews then a 50L pot or bigger is ideal for a full volume BIAB.

The plusses are that its a cheaper introduction than 3 vessels, its a little quicker as you don't sparge and its simpler. The minuses are that efficency is lower and the wort produced is slightly more fermentable so that means the beer is marginally thinner and finises at a lower specific gravity usually.

I started with BIAB and MaxiBIAB where you dunk the bag in a 2nd vessel which improves efficiency and lets you get more volume out of the equipment and my beers were very good. However a big mash tun became available to me really cheaply so I moved over to 3 vessel which gives me a slighly less fermentable wort that is a little higher in body which suits the ales I make but BIAB was the best introduction I could have hoped for.

Go for it!

 

[Lochem]

Hey thanks!

I actually saw a video where a guy did sparge the bag of grains after their steep.
Is there more I should know about how to deal with lower efficiency and/or more fermentable wort?

 

[Jeltz]

Nope just download some free software like brewmate and stick the efficiency to about 65% as you will probably hit between that and 70% on a 90 minute mash. Then plug your grain and hops into the software. You'll get a handle on how your particular equipment performs by trial and error and can then set your efficiency more accuratly. With MaxiBIAB and an overnight mash I would hit 80% efficincy if boiling with a hop sock (hops in a bag) but on straight BIAB using 90minute mash and a hop filter it was roughly 68%.

I'm sggesing that you start off with the efficiency set low as you probably would be happier if the beer turned out stronger rather than weaker than expected

 

[sb944]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/38674-move-to-all-grain-for-thirty-bucks/

The reason guides like this are good is they tell you what to do, not why. If you had to understand why up front, you'd probably never get as far as to actually try to brew a beer. I think you are much better off not asking too many questions up front, and just doing your absolute best to follow a step by step guide like this as accurately as possible. For a pot, just get a 19L Big W stock pot for $19, and any starter kit, like the Coopers DIY will give you a fermenter, bottles, hydrometer etc. For the grain and hops, give a homebrew shop the ingredient list he mentions, and some US05 yeast, and they'll crush the grains for you, shouldn't come to much more than about $20 for that brew.

Since it's your first time, you'll also need to research some stuff about fermentation, mainly temperature control, sanitisation and gravity readings.

If you follow the guide above, ferment it in a sanitised fermenter as close to 18C as you can for a week, you'll have yummy beer, and hopefully a whole lot of questions about the whole process.

 

[Lochem]

hey mate thanks for the link that tutorial is great. i wil be sure to read it thru, altho slowly as there is alot of info!

cheers!

 

[Lochem]

As per your post on the other thread, BIAB is an easy in to brewing with grain, you can keep it really simple and still get great beer. If you are aiming for 23L brews then a 50L pot or bigger is ideal for a full volume BIAB.

The plusses are that its a cheaper introduction than 3 vessels, its a little quicker as you don't sparge and its simpler. The minuses are that efficency is lower and the wort produced is slightly more fermentable so that means the beer is marginally thinner and finises at a lower specific gravity usually.

I started with BIAB and MaxiBIAB where you dunk the bag in a 2nd vessel which improves efficiency and lets you get more volume out of the equipment and my beers were very good. However a big mash tun became available to me really cheaply so I moved over to 3 vessel which gives me a slighly less fermentable wort that is a little higher in body which suits the ales I make but BIAB was the best introduction I could have hoped for.

Go for it!

So last night i went for my 2nd brew - and my first all grain, in a bag. I probably made some mistakes because i started out with a good amount of fermentables (7 kg of grains) and about 18-20 Ltrs of mash water and i only got an OG of 1.042 after the boil. something went wrong, and im not sure where, but i can imagine that it happened when i didn't sparge enough. i only sparged about 1.5 liters and with that amount of grain, i definitely needed more.

I could be wrong, but its just my guess. meanwhile, im concerned i'm going to have a very weak Wheat beer.

:unsure:

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

It'll be fine. You'll be able to drink it and you sound like youre already learning.

Have a look at my 2 pot stovetop method with ghetto lauter thread. Not saying you should do it that way, but it's how I went about it. I ended up ditching the bag to be able to sparge properly. I noted that BribieG had an experiment where he was using a ghetto bucket as sort of a BIAB bag. Many ways to skin a cat, get the theory sorted as you practice and it'll all make sense.

 

[big78sam]

So last night i went for my 2nd brew - and my first all grain, in a bag. I probably made some mistakes because i started out with a good amount of fermentables (7 kg of grains) and about 18-20 Ltrs of mash water and i only got an OG of 1.042 after the boil. something went wrong, and im not sure where, but i can imagine that it happened when i didn't sparge enough. i only sparged about 1.5 liters and with that amount of grain, i definitely needed more.

I could be wrong, but its just my guess. meanwhile, im concerned i'm going to have a very weak Wheat beer.

:unsure:

1042 will not produce a "very weak" beer. You'll be fine.

But yes, something looks a bit off from your brief description above. 7 kgs mashed in 18 to 20L of water plus only 1.5 L to sparge means a total of 20 - 22L of water used. With losses to trub/grain and losses during the boil my guess is you only ended up with 15L in the fermenter (unless you topped up with water post boil).

Are you sure the SG is correct - Did you measure the SG at room temperature? If not you'd have to convert. Did you give the hydrometer a spin before taking the measurement?

We'd need a step by step to comment further.

 

[Lochem]

Hey Sam
Here's the answers to your questions, and thanks.
I got around 16 liters into the fermenter after the boil. But I topped it up with cold tap water to 28 ltr total in a 30 ltr bucket.

I already converted the gravity reading accounting for wort temp. 1.042 is the corrected gravity.
Gave the hydrometer a good spin.

My biggest frustration with this evening brew was not realizing before I started just how much grain I had. I didn't have proper equipment set up and stuff was splashing, siphon tube took some wrestling with, the bag of grains was HEAVY and I struggled to work with it.... after seeing Goomba's ghetto two bucket lauter I'm beginning to rethink this whole bag situation. It was and still is a big mess.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

That's pretty much why I switched. You'll see it in the pros/cons (I was objective about this). The bag was a mission, batch size was slightly inhibited (yes I know about maxi-BIAB, but the bag is still a mission to deal with) and I prefer to sparge. I have had a lot less mess issues with it (another advantage is the mashing in and lautering/sparging can be done outside away from the stove, with the end product only on the stove).

 

[Lochem]

That's pretty much why I switched. You'll see it in the pros/cons (I was objective about this). The bag was a mission, batch size was slightly inhibited (yes I know about maxi-BIAB, but the bag is still a mission to deal with) and I prefer to sparge. I have had a lot less mess issues with it (another advantage is the mashing in and lautering/sparging can be done outside away from the stove, with the end product only on the stove).

So tell me what is all rage about with bags?
PS what would be the pros/cons of using a bag in the top bucket of your setup?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

So tell me what is all rage about with bags?
PS what would be the pros/cons of using a bag in the top bucket of your setup?

Bags are excellent for getting the grain out of the water in a very quick (though heavy manner) and for those with the headspace in the 1V (or urn), a good one vessel system, especially if you don't want to sparge. My system isn't about what is better or worse, simply what annoyed me and how I fixed it - cheaply.

I use a bag in the top bucket when I home pulverise the grain to keep the finer particles out. If I was getting it milled properly, I'd not be using it.

Did you see the videos? You can see it poking out the top there.

 

[Lochem]

i hear you.

i had a lot of trouble with the bag. i struggled to lift it out and i lost due to splashing. it was heavy.

but i need to sort this out for my next brew. last night was tough.

why do u say "for those who dont want to sparge"? i thought it was necessary when steeping in a bag?

also i am noticing alot of recipes, etc sometimes saying to "mash" in the bag, and sometimes "steep" in the bag. i thought that the steeping is essentially a mash? what am i missing?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

For what you mean, steeping is basically mashing. Mashing is the holding of the grains at a specific temperature water for a longer specific time - to get conversion of starch to sugar in the base grain. Steeping is just chucking in grains (usually spec malts, which have a different mashing process that effectively converts most of the sugars before the grain actually gets used by the brewer) into hot water to get the heavily converted sugars already there out.

Brew in a bag, especially for the purists involves no sparging (Pistol Patch over at biabrewer.info is the proponent of this on the back of a longer mash time). I've always sparged in a bag bar once. The 'squeezing' of the bag is pretty much not a sparge but kinda does the trick of one. Most purist-BIABers will hold their bag on a hoist or something of the nature so that gravity gets the extra liquor in the grain out.

Reasons I said it, is because I'm being objective of each method, rather than evangelical about any specific method.

I like being able to use a litre jug to gradually transfer over the mash after mash time is up, it saves me lifting the entire lot in one go. The bucket in bucket, just allows the liquor to come out the other end, and sparging to occur if wanted.

 

[Lochem]

For what you mean, steeping is basically mashing. Mashing is the holding of the grains at a specific temperature water for a longer specific time - to get conversion of starch to sugar in the base grain. Steeping is just chucking in grains (usually spec malts, which have a different mashing process that effectively converts most of the sugars before the grain actually gets used by the brewer) into hot water to get the heavily converted sugars already there out.

OK - are you saying that if i choose to steep/mash INSIDE a bag, the grains/base malts need to be of a different sort than if i were doing conventional mashing (e.g. your 2-buckets without a bag)?
If i order grains from the HBS should i be telling them each time what method ill be brewing them with? i want to make sure i get the right kind!

sorry if my questions keep pestering you, i have a tendency to get heavily involved in the details of things h34r:

 

[big78sam]

OK - are you saying that if i choose to steep/mash INSIDE a bag, the grains/base malts need to be of a different sort than if i were doing conventional mashing (e.g. your 2-buckets without a bag)?
If i order grains from the HBS should i be telling them each time what method ill be brewing them with? i want to make sure i get the right kind!

sorry if my questions keep pestering you, i have a tendency to get heavily involved in the details of things h34r:

No. It's nothing to do with the method you're using. You use exactly the same type of grain regardless of BIAB, bucket in bucket, 3 vessel etc.

The only difference may be that you can get your crush a bit finer if you are using a bag as there are no worries about a stuck sparge.

I'll leave it to an expert to descrive the difference between steeping and mashing.

 

[big78sam]

Manticle expalined the difference between steeping and mashing here. It's basically what Raja said in a few more words.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/50940-mash-and-steep/

 

[Bribie G]

I'd agree that full volume BIAB with a bag is the ultimate PITA when it comes to raising the bag, unless you have a skyhook and pulley system, which I have. In fact it was the first thing I organised before I even bought the 40L urn. You can knock one up really cheaply and I've tested mine with an 80 y.o. great grandmother who can hoist it one handed.

Jeltz, remember the old BBC programme "The Old Grey Whistle Test" ? maybe a bit before your time but I've got the Old Grey Granny Test :lol:

If you are put off by the bag then don't go BIAB as we are in it for enjoyment and pride in a well organised hobby, not five minutes of agony and swearing :unsure:

 

[Trevandjo]

For what it's worth, I use a bag inside my mash tun. It makes grain removal simple and assists in the straining of husks during lautering. Makes things simple - which leaves less cleaning and more drinking time.