KegLand Questions and Answers

[KegLand-com-au]

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate the help sorting this out.

I understand all you are saying so I'll explain it the way I see it:

- My chamber will not maintain the temperature I set when using the Pill as the temperature source.

- When I set the temperature to 20degC I expect the chamber to adjust it's temperature (heat/cool as required) to keep the internal sensor of the Pill at 20degC. Nothing else should matter.

- My chamber mistakenly keeps the temperature 2 degC higher at 22degC. I have physically watched the chamber heat and cool at the wrong trigger points to maintain this error.

My Pill is accurate (measured).
My chamber runs accurately when run on the NTC sensor (measured and recalibrated)
This 2degC offset happens over an entire 2 week ferment profile. (currently cold crashed set to -2degC and maintaining 0degC).

All of the suggestions so far will only effect the rate at which the temperature achieves it's set equilibrium - not the final temperature which is where I have the problem.

I strongly believe there is a mismatch in the data value given by the Pill to what the chamber processes and acts upon.
Not sure what side the error is on and doesn't mater to me. I was hoping a simple offset option could fix it. (I'm sorry I referred to it as calibrating the Pill to the chamber)

At the end of the day I can create a profile that is 2 degC colder for all steps or run an external NTC in a thermowell but being an experienced design engineer and brewer myself I find work-arounds a bit annoying when things are close to being a great product.

Thanks

Hello Michael. I think we may have found your device in the database so I am assuming I am looking at the correct data. I suspect that what you have is a sensor differential that is not set at a large enough figure.

The sensor differential is the figure that will limit the difference between the inbuilt wired probe and the pill temperature. This is an important setting as it gives you some redundancy in the system and enables you to use both probes. I believe that what is happening with your fermentation chamber is your sensor differential is too small and you should increase this to 5 or 10C. That way your fridge air temperature can vary to a larger degree and force the chamber to heat/cool like you want it to. At the moment the sensor differential is getting triggered and the cooling is turning off before you hit the set point. I assume this is what is happening but if you can check this and get back to us that would be great.

In addition to this I think you have set your hysteresis to 2C. This is a good setting when you are using the inbuilt temp probe as the air temperature has not much thermal mass so 2C is reasonable. With that said when you are using the large thermal mass of the fermenter and pill inside the fermenter this physical mass of liquid is enough to "buffer" the temperature quite a bit so you can really reduce the hysteresis to 0.1C or 0.2C. This is not really your issue but while I was looking at your data I would say this would help your performance substantially given what you are doing.

 

[CJW]

This is a good setting when you are using the inbuilt temp probe as the air temperature has not much thermal mass so 2C is reasonable. With that said when you are using the large thermal mass of the fermenter and pill inside the fermenter this physical mass of liquid is enough to "buffer" the temperature quite a bit so you can really reduce the hysteresis to 0.1C or 0.2C.

I haven't looked into this, but just reading your response it did trigger a thought...

Could you have different configuration sets that are used depending on whether the temp probe is internal RTC or Pill? ie If switching between temp the measurement source the active set of relevent settings switch.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate the help sorting this out.

I understand all you are saying so I'll explain it the way I see it:

- My chamber will not maintain the temperature I set when using the Pill as the temperature source.

- When I set the temperature to 20degC I expect the chamber to adjust it's temperature (heat/cool as required) to keep the internal sensor of the Pill at 20degC. Nothing else should matter.

- My chamber mistakenly keeps the temperature 2 degC higher at 22degC. I have physically watched the chamber heat and cool at the wrong trigger points to maintain this error.

My Pill is accurate (measured).
My chamber runs accurately when run on the NTC sensor (measured and recalibrated)
This 2degC offset happens over an entire 2 week ferment profile. (currently cold crashed set to -2degC and maintaining 0degC).

All of the suggestions so far will only effect the rate at which the temperature achieves it's set equilibrium - not the final temperature which is where I have the problem.

I strongly believe there is a mismatch in the data value given by the Pill to what the chamber processes and acts upon.
Not sure what side the error is on and doesn't mater to me. I was hoping a simple offset option could fix it. (I'm sorry I referred to it as calibrating the Pill to the chamber)

At the end of the day I can create a profile that is 2 degC colder for all steps or run an external NTC in a thermowell but being an experienced design engineer and brewer myself I find work-arounds a bit annoying when things are close to being a great product.

Thanks

Can you please send us all your settings including the pill settings such as Bluetooth sensor timeout, telemetry frequency and all the settings on the actual chamber. If you also send me the last 6 digits of the mac address that would help to so I can confirm your data.

I am fairly confident that one of the settings need to be adjusted but on the back end we can't see all your settings so it's very difficult to troubleshoot without knowing how its setup.

Another thing that really helps is if you actually take a video going through the settings on the device screen. If you are able to do that this greatly increases the speed at which we can normally work out the issue.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I haven't looked into this, but just reading your response it did trigger a thought...

Could you have different configuration sets that are used depending on whether the temp probe is internal RTC or Pill? ie If switching between temp the measurement source the active set of relevent settings switch.

This is something that is being considered at the moment. One in the Gitlab page for the RAPT feature requests we had one customer request that during the profile different sensor inputs can be used. At the same time it would also be possible for us to change the hysteresis etc for each profile step. This does make the profiles a bit more complicated so perhaps it's something that advanced users can turn on/off. We are discussing this type of functionality at the moment.

 

[newers]

@KegLand-com-au any update on the next gen tri Conical with the new collection jar? I've see a couple of photos floating around so assume it's close?

@KegLand-com-au any news on the 3 inch tri-clover collection jar? I'm in desperate need for a whole new Fermzilla but want to wait for the 3 inch x 3 inch butterfly valve and collection jar version.

 

[huez]

@KegLand-com-au any news on the 3 inch tri-clover collection jar? I'm in desperate need for a whole new Fermzilla but want to wait for the 3 inch x 3 inch butterfly valve and collection jar version.

I've been holding out as well. Tempted to get the current version and upgrade later but knowing my luck the new version will come out the day after I buy the old one.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au any news on the 3 inch tri-clover collection jar? I'm in desperate need for a whole new Fermzilla but want to wait for the 3 inch x 3 inch butterfly valve and collection jar version.

All the tooling is complete. The 55L model will probably come into stock in about 2 months and the 27L model will be more like 3-4 months away.

The parts are backwards compatible with the current fermzilla tri-conical gen 3 so you have to purchase a 3" x 3" butterfly and then the new collection container.

With this last change I would say we are unlikely to make any other upgrades to the fermzilla after this collection container upgrade. It's getting increasingly difficult to look for areas to improve this fermentation vessel so I think we are reaching the peak of what we can achieve to be honest.

 

[newers]

All the tooling is complete. The 55L model will probably come into stock in about 2 months and the 27L model will be more like 3-4 months away.

The parts are backwards compatible with the current fermzilla tri-conical gen 3 so you have to purchase a 3" x 3" butterfly and then the new collection container.

With this last change I would say we are unlikely to make any other upgrades to the fermzilla after this collection container upgrade. It's getting increasingly difficult to look for areas to improve this fermentation vessel so I think we are reaching the peak of what we can achieve to be honest.

Fantastic - thanks for the update.

 

[professional_drunk]

@KegLand-com-au was there a mini version of the RAPT fridge in the pipeline?
I'm asking because I'm quite a lazy brewer and am not interested in a keg fridge because I don't want to manage kegs and I brew around 25 litres which doesn't fit very well.
I've been brewing and serving from my 2 all rounders in the fridge and I occasionally can from here. I am quite happy with the lack of effort required in this setup.
What would make it better is if I had 2 fridges I could stack on top of each other that were sized for all rounders. Gas input and 1 tap/canning out port. Two fridges would beat my one because I could control the temp independently.

 

[DazGore]

@KegLand-com-au Are you guys still looking at making the Nukatap Mini that connects straight to the duotight flow control disconnect?
Also will the flow control disconnects work upside down, or at 90 degrees?

Thank you

 

[sixfignig]

 

[KegLand-com-au]

View attachment 123198

Lol - you are too funny!

The nitrogen cylinders are in stock now. Sorry about the long wait:

https://www.kegland.com.au/nitro-duokit-nitrogen-n2-gas-duotight-push-in-kit.html

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au was there a mini version of the RAPT fridge in the pipeline?
I'm asking because I'm quite a lazy brewer and am not interested in a keg fridge because I don't want to manage kegs and I brew around 25 litres which doesn't fit very well.
I've been brewing and serving from my 2 all rounders in the fridge and I occasionally can from here. I am quite happy with the lack of effort required in this setup.
What would make it better is if I had 2 fridges I could stack on top of each other that were sized for all rounders. Gas input and 1 tap/canning out port. Two fridges would beat my one because I could control the temp independently.

Yes we do have a mini version of the RAPT chamber in the pipeline. These have been designed so they can double stack too. If everything goes well they will hopefully be finished later this year. They will be substiantially cheaper but will not fit a lot of the taller conical type fermenters.

They will be good for All Rounders up to 60L and also suitable for 27L Fermzilla but some taller ones will not fit. They will also fit Kegmenters and other similar shaped fermenters.

Unlike the current RAPT fermentation chamber they will not have a waste collection container, large colour screen. These things will also reduce the cost.

It will have a 1" screen on the front door and it will also link to the RAPT portal and will have bluetooth bridge functionality.

It's hard to know what the cost will be but we are hoping it will be about $300-$400 but it's better to wait until close to the launch date so we can determine the exact pricing. As always we will do whatever we can to make it sharply priced.

 

[sixfignig]

Lol - you are too funny!

The nitrogen cylinders are in stock now. Sorry about the long wait:

https://www.kegland.com.au/nitro-duokit-nitrogen-n2-gas-duotight-push-in-kit.html

Haha thanks fellas, muchly appreciated.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au Are you guys still looking at making the Nukatap Mini that connects straight to the duotight flow control disconnect?
Also will the flow control disconnects work upside down, or at 90 degrees?

Thank you

Yes that is correct,. The tap can twist 360 degree with respect to the FC ball lock disconnect. Once the shank is done up this locks the tap into that particular orientation. We are just waiting for more shanks to arrive and then we will do a video on this product showing how it works.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au Are you guys still looking at making the Nukatap Mini that connects straight to the duotight flow control disconnect?
Also will the flow control disconnects work upside down, or at 90 degrees?

Thank you

Just out of interest with the Nukatap mini are there any particular applications that you want us to make attachments? For instance did you want us to make something to attach to a fridge shelf or an esky lid? Would be keen to see what you guys would like us to manufacture in this particular space.

 

[Sleepy Weasel]

I have a question relating to the Kegland Sodastream bottle adapter.
I bought one of these a couple of years back, and use it to refill bottles for neighbours and family. I used to get the odd failure - some bottle just wouldn't have a bar (see what I did there?) of it. But overall, I was getting a result. I followed the steps that Kee laid out in his YouTube vid, and things mostly worked.
Lately, however, I just strike out every time. The bottles are nicely cold from my chest freezer, but that's not the issue. They just don't even get started. These are all the newer type of Sodastream recipient bottles, so I barely crack the donor to start. Still nothing. Open a little wider - nada. My donor bottle comes from Gas Guyz (6Kg), and I used to use a Supagas cylinder, but the gas flows from the donor bottle without problems; the problem seems to be more on the recipient side.
I even bought a new adapter in case there was a problem there. Still nothing. I'm now considering buying 6 or so Kegland 60L bottles and splitting the cost with the neighbours, but I need to be sure before I commit that I won't have the same problems.
Any wise words for me?

 

[Meddo]

Hi, what's the chemical resistance like of your inline regulators? Specifically caustic beer line cleaner and phosphoric-based sanitiser? I want to do a precautionary flush of my reg board due to some mould in my kegerator while some of the regs weren't connected (open to atmosphere), the materials listed look like they should be fine but would like to check first please.

Duotight Inline In Line Regulator - With integrated gauge for water or gas - 8mm (5/16

Thank you

Bump @KegLand-com-au, can you help me out with this one please?

 

[DazGore]

Just out of interest with the Nukatap mini are there any particular applications that you want us to make attachments? For instance did you want us to make something to attach to a fridge shelf or an esky lid? Would be keen to see what you guys would like us to manufacture in this particular space.

I have two ssbrewtech brite tanks, currently i serve with glycol chilled python to a flow control tap system on my bench top.

My beer line is balanced, but still have some gas buildup in beer lines between pours, not sure if its due to the lines being out in the open (even though its in python, and foam wrapped), or just some other weird thing due to setup. I have 2, and only seem to get a problem with one. And not always the same one.

Anyway, so i thought of putting the flow control at the start of my beer line via the disconnect, so have a 1.5" tri clover to liquid ball post, coming.
I would need a 90 degree elbow tri clover to bend up, and connect the ball lock here, then the disconnect, and nukatap mini into that or........
No elbow or nukatap mini, and just go from brite-tc ball post-fc disconnect-beer line-benchtop tap.

But i happened to notice your 1.5" tri clover to tap shank so have ordered that and the nukatap fc to see if i can just serve straight from the brite, bypassing the beer line and bench taps altogether. Which would free up a space on my bench to put the cannula.

So to answer your question @KegLand-com-au there is no attachments etc that i can think of, except maybe a tri-clover duotight (although Tri-clover to 1/4" mfl, with 1/4" ffl duotight works fine)

Are you looking at doing a FC nukatap mini also, or just normal one?

Thanks

 

[shmick]

Can you please send us all your settings including the pill settings such as Bluetooth sensor timeout, telemetry frequency and all the settings on the actual chamber. If you also send me the last 6 digits of the mac address that would help to so I can confirm your data.

I am fairly confident that one of the settings need to be adjusted but on the back end we can't see all your settings so it's very difficult to troubleshoot without knowing how its setup.

Another thing that really helps is if you actually take a video going through the settings on the device screen. If you are able to do that this greatly increases the speed at which we can normally work out the issue.

Thanks
I emailed the settings through

I changed the heating and cooling hysteresis to 0.5 degC each and the Pill temperature is now tracking the set temp.
I could not set it to 0.1/0.2C as it would only go down to 0.3C/0.5C.

Seems a very odd way to make it work but I'll accept the fix.

Would be nice to add some notes or default setting values to make it function correctly out of the box and save (lots of) time .

Thanks