Kegging Vs Bottling Beer

[Grmblz]

@Grmblz do you find you get much sediment when naturally carbonating in a keg?
Is it just a case of the first couple of pints being cloudy and the rest is ok?

Depends on your process, and gear. Yeast is the big one, a high floc'g strain being essential for clear beer, or you can use a floating dip tube (same as a Fermzilla) in your keg and draw from the top (this can be a bit hit and miss using the KL float as it jams up sometimes and sucks air, err CO2, Clear Beer Draught System
is far superior if you have the coin alternatively a closed pressure transfer to a serving keg.
If you have a hard yeast pan in the bottom of the keg then it's only the first couple of pours (but this takes extra time for the yeast to really settle) an old trick is to slightly bend the bottom third of the dip tube so that it just contacts the side of the keg, costs about 250ml in lost beer (this is what I do)

We used to serve Worthingtons white shield, an English classic bottle conditioned IPA that was primed with two yeast strains and had quite a layer of hard floc'g yeast on the bottom.
Customers fell into one of three categories, the "I don't care" easy, the "has to be crystal clear" very careful pour as even the slightest bit of haze resulted in rejection, and "I want it all in my glass" resulting in pouring down to a third of the bottle then swirling to get every bit of yeasty goodness back into suspension before dumping it all into the glass, very time consuming.
I only mention this to point out that it's really strokes for folks, I'm a swirl it all up type of guy (style dependant of course) so I don't mind a bit of haze and quite like the bottle conditioned flavour you get from keg conditioning, if you're a crystal clear type then the pain of a closed pressure transfer through a filter to a serving keg, might mean force carbing is a better option, you just lose the extra shelf life, the ease of carbonation (see Marks #55 ^ ) and the slightly different taste, but that might suit you of course.

 

[MHB]

Bit like ordering a Coopers, you get those who roll the bottle along the bar, those who drip-feed the beer into the glass. Me, given a choice will always pour my own, sort of just what comes out if you pour sensibly.

Dave70, shouldn't matter much, most of the flavour's yeast makes are produced early in he ferment. just note that the hotter beer is the faster it changes. Both for good and ill. but that beer matured slowly and cooler tends to taste better longer... Personally I like to mature at around 18oC, good balance between flavour and speed.
Mark

 

[S.E]

an old trick is to slightly bend the bottom third of the dip tube so that it just contacts the side of the keg, costs about 250ml in lost beer (this is what I do)

Another option if you don’t want to bend or cut your long liquid dip is replace it with a short gas dip and a length of silicone tube and let it hang without a float just short and off the bottom of the keg.

 

[DazGore]

I have the ssbrewtech fermenter and 2 Brite tanks that i serve from. Everything is glycol chilled and transferred under pressure.
The reason I ask is I have a Belgium dubbel in my fermenter and was thinking of naturally carbonating a couple of kegs and to age/condition for a few months.
I don't fancy bottle conditioning.
I have the cannula canning system, so may do an experiment of can conditioning.

 

[Grmblz]

I have the ssbrewtech fermenter and 2 Brite tanks that i serve from. Everything is glycol chilled and transferred under pressure.
Very nice bit of kit, so clarity is high on your priorities?

The reason I ask is I have a Belgium dubbel in my fermenter and was thinking of naturally carbonating a couple of kegs and to age/condition for a few months.
I don't fancy bottle conditioning.
Send me one for Christmas

I have the cannula canning system, so may do an experiment of can conditioning.
On the face of it canning is the way to go but I've seen mixed reports, and probably a fair bit of op error, apparently the semi auto has solved some of the early cannular issues. It's certainly a way to mitigate oxygen pickup associated with HB canning although clarity may be an issue, would love to hear how you go with this, I've been looking at canning for my big beers but the jury seems to be out (US commercial breweries) on extended ageing as compared to bottles. Please keep us posted on any progress.

 

[Paleman]

70/80g dex/sugar in keg,
Fill keg from bottom avoiding splashing.
Fit lid and apply 30psi (that's what he's using Mark)
Spray lid and poppets with foaming sanitiser looking for leaks, especially the big lid O ring. If leak detected re-seat lid.
Fit spunding valve set at 15psi, this will release some of the 30psi, re-check for gas leaks.
Leave in a warm spot (more than 18c) for 10 days, check every couple of days that the spunding valve is showing 15psi.
Put keg in serving fridge and connect gas at whatever your serving pressure is.
Chill for 3 days, serve.

So which part of this ^ didn't happen? I'm guessing 30psi and checking for leaks, or checking the spunding valve to make sure the keg is holding pressure.
Also this is just a starting point, try setting the spunding valve at 20psi for more carbonation.
For your flat beer, set the reg at 20psi and leave it at that that for a couple of days, will get better with a bit of time, when it's to your liking reset the reg back to 12psi or whatever it is you're using.

Apologies for bringing up old posts. But where on the keg does a spunding valve fit, and where or how do i get one?

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Hello fellow drinkers
well it's fair to say this post took on a variety of different angles and aspects however I think that is a good thing as people's willingness and capacity to share their own experiences are enhanced. Just when you thought this old fat ******* had disappeared from the Internet… He has another question. Due to some rather extenuating circumstances, I have had some beer (100 L) that has been sitting in the fermenter for possibly one month now. It was fermented with an aquarium heater at 24° so the fermentation took well under a week. My question, if one may, have I left the beer too long and will it be spoiled if I bottled or keg did in the next two days. The airlocks have been in place all this time and I only turned the heaters off a couple of days of go if that makes any difference to the brains trusts answer.On a completely separate matter, could someone please advise me where I can select the option to be notified by email when someone has replied because for the life of me, I cannot see that option in front of me.

Cheers and Beers Big Ears

Darren

 

[Paleman]

Hello fellow drinkers
well it's fair to say this post took on a variety of different angles and aspects however I think that is a good thing as people's willingness and capacity to share their own experiences are enhanced. Just when you thought this old fat ******* had disappeared from the Internet… He has another question. Due to some rather extenuating circumstances, I have had some beer (100 L) that has been sitting in the fermenter for possibly one month now. It was fermented with an aquarium heater at 24° so the fermentation took well under a week. My question, if one may, have I left the beer too long and will it be spoiled if I bottled or keg did in the next two days. The airlocks have been in place all this time and I only turned the heaters off a couple of days of go if that makes any difference to the brains trusts answer.On a completely separate matter, could someone please advise me where I can select the option to be notified by email when someone has replied because for the life of me, I cannot see that option in front of me.

Cheers and Beers Big Ears

Darren

Have a taste, if it tastes ok out of the fermenter bottle or keg it. Nothing to lose really unless you need the room for something else.

 

[Paleman]

.On a completely separate matter, could someone please advise me where I can select the option to be notified by email when someone has replied because for the life of me, I cannot see that option in front of me.

Click on your username top right hand of screen, then click on preferences.

 

[Grmblz]

@DarrenTheDrunk Alternatively top right "watch"
@Paleman this is the valve BlowTie Diaphragm Spunding Valve - Adjustable Pressure Relief Valve
You actually need the kit BlowTie Complete Kit (Diaphragm Spunding Valve)
It goes onto the gas in disconnect, when the pressure gets to the set amount it releases it, just make sure you don't over-fill the keg because the gas in dip tube is quite long and if the keg is too full you'll end up with beer in the gauge and valve (you will do it lol) unless of course you use the Grmblz mod, I remove all the gas in dip tubes in my kegs, they serve a purpose commercially I'm sure but for me it's a hassle I don't need and I can get another couple of lt's into my kegs without the worry of beer going back up the gas line.

 

[Paleman]

@DarrenTheDrunk Alternatively top right "watch"
@Paleman this is the valve BlowTie Diaphragm Spunding Valve - Adjustable Pressure Relief Valve
You actually need the kit BlowTie Complete Kit (Diaphragm Spunding Valve)
It goes onto the gas in disconnect, when the pressure gets to the set amount it releases it, just make sure you don't over-fill the keg because the gas in dip tube is quite long and if the keg is too full you'll end up with beer in the gauge and valve (you will do it lol) unless of course you use the Grmblz mod, I remove all the gas in dip tubes in my kegs, they serve a purpose commercially I'm sure but for me it's a hassle I don't need and I can get another couple of lt's into my kegs without the worry of beer going back up the gas line.

Much appreciated, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[clickeral]

Hey all great advice in this thread

TBH personally I don't remember the last time I force carbed a keg, but the main thing is making sure its cold and rocked/shaked to help the liquid absorb CO2

I don't use natural carbonation via priming sugar etc when I keg as I like my ABV content to stay the same as what it is at final gravity

When I prime and bottle I adjust my recipe to allow for the additional ABV, unless its the last of a batch that doesnt fit into the keg and yes the bottled beer and my kegged beer of the same batch does taste different due to bottle conditioning at room temp and the higher ABV from the additional sugar

Kegged beer can taste a bit green to start depending on what you brew

Keg wise I still believe for a beginner the best way to carb a keg is as per below

STEP 1: Chill the beer in keg down to serving temperature (4–8 c)

STEP 2: Set your regulator to 10–12 psi

STEP 3: Connect gas to ‘Gas In’ post

STEP 4: Leave keg to sit (cold) under pressure for 10–14 days

STEP 5: After 10–14 days, connect your beer tap line to ‘Liquid Out’ post. Sample. If under carbonated, leave for a further 24hrs before re-testing. If carbonated, SERVE & ENJOY!

You can hook the gas up when you start chilling it as well, if you want higher carbonation set your reg 1psi on the next batch and see how that goes

Doing it this way is the set and forget method, and really hard to mess up, I have drank beer from the keg after a week via this method as well. it also gives the beer time to age

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Hey all great advice in this thread

TBH personally I don't remember the last time I force carbed a keg, but the main thing is making sure its cold and rocked/shaked to help the liquid absorb CO2

I don't use natural carbonation via priming sugar etc when I keg as I like my ABV content to stay the same as what it is at final gravity

When I prime and bottle I adjust my recipe to allow for the additional ABV, unless its the last of a batch that doesnt fit into the keg and yes the bottled beer and my kegged beer of the same batch does taste different due to bottle conditioning at room temp and the higher ABV from the additional sugar

Kegged beer can taste a bit green to start depending on what you brew

Keg wise I still believe for a beginner the best way to carb a keg is as per below

STEP 1: Chill the beer in keg down to serving temperature (4–8 c)

STEP 2: Set your regulator to 10–12 psi

STEP 3: Connect gas to ‘Gas In’ post

STEP 4: Leave keg to sit (cold) under pressure for 10–14 days

STEP 5: After 10–14 days, connect your beer tap line to ‘Liquid Out’ post. Sample. If under carbonated, leave for a further 24hrs before re-testing. If carbonated, SERVE & ENJOY!

You can hook the gas up when you start chilling it as well, if you want higher carbonation set your reg 1psi on the next batch and see how that goes

Doing it this way is the set and forget method, and really hard to mess up, I have drank beer from the keg after a week via this method as well. it also gives the beer time to age

Thanks mate. your reply is exactly how I like them to be. Very simple with step by step instruction. To say I am not the sharpest pencil in the pencil case certainly when it comes to this hobby is an understatement. And my dear dear technical consultants Grmblz (Grahame) and DazGore (Dazzler) will attest to this statement. I have been MIA for the past 2 weeks do to medical reasons and today I am going to keg up two batches doing it EXACTLY as Dazzler advised on this occasion including leaving it chilled and gassed up for 2 weeks. I will have a little "sip" after say 4 and 8 days cos thats just what ya gotta do...and I will report back on my success or failure. The 3 kegs I have now sitting in the fridge and lounge room will be disposed of which makes it 7 x 19 liter kegs I have "f#@%&ed up or at least think I did but I guess it is the price I need to pay in the learning process.

Cheers and Beers Big Ears

'Darren

 

[Georgedgerton]

When kegging, I find most of the time the beer is good to drink as soon as it's carbed. It does hit a peak somewhere around 3-4 weeks. But, my brewing processes are different to yours and that may affect the numbers I just told you.
Keep practicing and improving your process. There's no one thing we can tell you that will help because brewing is about doing many small things well. I'm sure I've dumped hundreds of liters of beer from my mistakes. Take it as the cost of tuition.

I've rarely had a beer good to go straight from carbonation. In general I find most of my brews seem to be getting good at around that 3 week period

 

[Georgedgerton]

Hey all great advice in this thread

TBH personally I don't remember the last time I force carbed a keg, but the main thing is making sure its cold and rocked/shaked to help the liquid absorb CO2

I don't use natural carbonation via priming sugar etc when I keg as I like my ABV content to stay the same as what it is at final gravity

When I prime and bottle I adjust my recipe to allow for the additional ABV, unless its the last of a batch that doesnt fit into the keg and yes the bottled beer and my kegged beer of the same batch does taste different due to bottle conditioning at room temp and the higher ABV from the additional sugar

Kegged beer can taste a bit green to start depending on what you brew

Keg wise I still believe for a beginner the best way to carb a keg is as per below

STEP 1: Chill the beer in keg down to serving temperature (4–8 c)

STEP 2: Set your regulator to 10–12 psi

STEP 3: Connect gas to ‘Gas In’ post

STEP 4: Leave keg to sit (cold) under pressure for 10–14 days

STEP 5: After 10–14 days, connect your beer tap line to ‘Liquid Out’ post. Sample. If under carbonated, leave for a further 24hrs before re-testing. If carbonated, SERVE & ENJOY!

You can hook the gas up when you start chilling it as well, if you want higher carbonation set your reg 1psi on the next batch and see how that goes

Doing it this way is the set and forget method, and really hard to mess up, I have drank beer from the keg after a week via this method as well. it also gives the beer time to age

I agree, I always carb my beer up at serving pressure, forcing it just doesn't cut the mustard, for me at least