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Kegging Vs Bottling Beer

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Meddo

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I prefer Bar cos it's basically the metric kPa (certainly the difference in conversion is much much smaller than the error range of any of my pressure gauges) but within an easier numeric range (typically 0.8 - 2 bar vs. 80 - 200 kPa). Mentally converting back from PSI when required is dead easy anyway (again within the error range of my gauges) - just divide by 1.5 and shift the decimal place (i.e. 15 PSI / 1.5 = 10, shift the decimal place = 1.0 bar; 12 PSI / 1.5 = 8, 8 / 10 = 0.8 bar; 45 PSI / 1.5 = 30, 30 / 10 = 3 bar, and so on...)
 

MHB

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I quite like using PSI BTW.
Why?

Meddo
Cant really argue with Bar it's about as negotiable as the g in p=Rho*g*h, its just a reality.
About the only reason to prefer kPa would be from the above where: -
The pressure in kPa = Density (Rho)*g*head in meters.
Which just means all the units line up, which is really handy if some of the more advanced calculations involved in conditioning.
Your point about gauges is well made, there is a fair chance people aren't getting what they think and often by quite a large margin. Have had to calibrate a couple of gauges by running a hose up to a second story balcony and measuring the water height, then comparing the gauge to the true pressure. Doesn't make Psi any more useful or even utile unless its just being used as a number without any connection to any other part of the brewing process.
I pretty firmly believe that everything in brewing is interconnected and interdependent. Coined a saying that I've repeated often enough "everything ends up in the glass" from recipe design to how you pour a beer, the conditioning of the beer plays no small role in how the beer tastes and looks, so its beneficial to understand how it works and relates to the rest of the process.

Looks like Darren isn't coming back, hasn't been seen since his post in this thread...
Mark
 

Rohin Fretter

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What about bottling from kegs? Do you lose much carbonation in the process? I often bottle the last few beers in the keg when changing out with no noticable ill-effect short term. Would they maintain that over months?
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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Well just when I thought I was getting the hang of this kegging stuff, having naturally carbonated the beer (ie, the Grmblz) method for 10 days at about 23 c, I put the keg into the fridge and hooked up the co2, set at 30psi as the beer was flat so decided to do the force carbonated for 24 hours when it is recommended to do this for 12 to 18 hours. let out the co2 and set it back to 12 psi for another 2 hours. The head was wonderful BUT the beer was still flat in that there were no bubbles in the glass like there should have been. I bloody nearly picked up the fridge and kegs and throw them up the tip...this is just after I ordered and paid for 2 new kegs which will give me 6 in total Grrrrrrr. So I cracked a long neck and it is bloody amazing. Its the Coopers Real Ale which was bottled 21 Feb so 15 weeks sitting in the bottle. WT hell am I doing wrong
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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What about bottling from kegs? Do you lose much carbonation in the process? I often bottle the last few beers in the keg when changing out with no noticable ill-effect short term. Would they maintain that over months?

Really good question Robin Fretter. Look forward to a reply from the brains trust
 

razz

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What about bottling from kegs? Do you lose much carbonation in the process? I often bottle the last few beers in the keg when changing out with no noticable ill-effect short term. Would they maintain that over months?
These days I only bottle from the keg if I'm going out with takeaways or giving some to a mate. So, the beer generally gets drank reasonably quickly. Carbonation carries over no problems, as long as you keep everything cold do it slowly. I don't use a counter filler, I just wind back the pouring pressure on the adjustable beer disconnect and take about 30-40 seconds to fill a Coopers PET bottle. Screw the caps on nice and tight and Robert's your mothers brother. Never kept any for months Rohin, maybe I'll try one tomorrow and report back. But it would need to stay in the fridge.
 

Grmblz

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WT hell am I doing wrong
70/80g dex/sugar in keg,
Fill keg from bottom avoiding splashing.
Fit lid and apply 30psi (that's what he's using Mark)
Spray lid and poppets with foaming sanitiser looking for leaks, especially the big lid O ring. If leak detected re-seat lid.
Fit spunding valve set at 15psi, this will release some of the 30psi, re-check for gas leaks.
Leave in a warm spot (more than 18c) for 10 days, check every couple of days that the spunding valve is showing 15psi.
Put keg in serving fridge and connect gas at whatever your serving pressure is.
Chill for 3 days, serve.

So which part of this ^ didn't happen? I'm guessing 30psi and checking for leaks, or checking the spunding valve to make sure the keg is holding pressure.
Also this is just a starting point, try setting the spunding valve at 20psi for more carbonation.
For your flat beer, set the reg at 20psi and leave it at that that for a couple of days, will get better with a bit of time, when it's to your liking reset the reg back to 12psi or whatever it is you're using.
 

DazGore

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@DarrenTheDrunk - When you say you bought a second hand keggerator, did the kegs you are using come with it?
It may be a good idea to swap out the posts for new ones. Or alternatively use your new kegs that you bought for your next batch, which should have no leaks etc and see where that gets you.
@MHB advice and detailed info is really great, worth reading a few times over to familiarize yourself.
I serve from 40Ltr brite tanks, and I find that my beer generally tastes better around the 6 week mark. I have a carbonation stone, and even though I am fully carbonated after 24hrs (according to pressure gauge), I find that it takes around 2 weeks for the beer to 'soak' in the gas (Saturate) to really get the fizz I want.

Daz
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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70/80g dex/sugar in keg,
Fill keg from bottom avoiding splashing.
Fit lid and apply 30psi (that's what he's using Mark)
Spray lid and poppets with foaming sanitiser looking for leaks, especially the big lid O ring. If leak detected re-seat lid.
Fit spunding valve set at 15psi, this will release some of the 30psi, re-check for gas leaks.
Leave in a warm spot (more than 18c) for 10 days, check every couple of days that the spunding valve is showing 15psi.
Put keg in serving fridge and connect gas at whatever your serving pressure is.
Chill for 3 days, serve.

So which part of this ^ didn't happen? I'm guessing 30psi and checking for leaks, or checking the spunding valve to make sure the keg is holding pressure.
Also this is just a starting point, try setting the spunding valve at 20psi for more carbonation.
For your flat beer, set the reg at 20psi and leave it at that that for a couple of days, will get better with a bit of time, when it's to your liking reset the reg back to 12psi or whatever it is you're using.

Thank you my friend of infinite wisdom. I cant remember what I did yesterday but I think you are right that I did not check for leaks. @When you do it this way, do your get plenty of "carbonation" bubbles through the entire time while drinking... I am a lover of bubbles !!! I think Daz advice is sound. I will use the new kegs and follow your approach and see what happens. Is the beer I have now "recoverable" or is this going to be number 3,250 kegs I need to pore down the drain ( a slight exaggeration). If I was to re go through the process from start, couls I transfer this keg (x 3) in to the new ones, add more sugar and the spunding valves, put it at 18 - 22 c for 10 days. My only concern would be is there enough yeast left for the second batch of sugar. TIA
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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@DarrenTheDrunk - When you say you bought a second hand keggerator, did the kegs you are using come with it?
It may be a good idea to swap out the posts for new ones. Or alternatively use your new kegs that you bought for your next batch, which should have no leaks etc and see where that gets you.
@MHB advice and detailed info is really great, worth reading a few times over to familiarize yourself.
I serve from 40Ltr brite tanks, and I find that my beer generally tastes better around the 6 week mark. I have a carbonation stone, and even though I am fully carbonated after 24hrs (according to pressure gauge), I find that it takes around 2 weeks for the beer to 'soak' in the gas (Saturate) to really get the fizz I want.

Daz

Thanks Daz. Do you find the beer is better at say 6 weeks compared to the 2 weeks you allow for the gas "soaking". TIA
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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@DarrenTheDrunk - When you say you bought a second hand keggerator, did the kegs you are using come with it?
It may be a good idea to swap out the posts for new ones. Or alternatively use your new kegs that you bought for your next batch, which should have no leaks etc and see where that gets you.
@MHB advice and detailed info is really great, worth reading a few times over to familiarize yourself.
I serve from 40Ltr brite tanks, and I find that my beer generally tastes better around the 6 week mark. I have a carbonation stone, and even though I am fully carbonated after 24hrs (according to pressure gauge), I find that it takes around 2 weeks for the beer to 'soak' in the gas (Saturate) to really get the fizz I want.

Daz

Sorry Daz, I searched for @MHB and the forum said the member could not be found. When I clicked on the @MHB, posts from 2019 came up. How do I get to the info you recommended...Cheers:bowdown:
 

MHB

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Darren if you mean links like this one Braukaiser
Just point your cursor at the link (in red) a line will appear under it and right click, I would then choose "Open link in new tab" that should open the page being pointed to...

You can get lost in Braukaiser for a couple of days if you aren't careful, very good quality information but more aimed at experienced all grain brewers so at your own pace.
Mark
 

DazGore

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Thanks Daz. Do you find the beer is better at say 6 weeks compared to the 2 weeks you allow for the gas "soaking". TIA
Hi Darren, definitely. It's drinkable at 2 weeks, but the head and carbonation is not quite there, the extra week or so really makes a difference
 

DazGore

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Sorry Daz, I searched for @MHB and the forum said the member could not be found. When I clicked on the @MHB, posts from 2019 came up. How do I get to the info you recommended...Cheers:bowdown:
I'm talking about Mark (MHB) whom replied in this post. Check out post number 15,16 & 18 to start
 

DazGore

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It is really frustrating when you have a brand new kegging system and it just does not work. It takes a little bit of experimenting, time and patience, but eventually you get "your" system dialled in to "your" conditions and afterwards it's smooth sailing. Persevere with it, and you will get there, and will not.look back.
I personally am not a fan of burst carbing. I prefer to set and forget, there is no chance of it over carbing etc... it takes a little longer, but like I said, the beer needs a week or 2 to soak in the gas anyway.
I am no expert, but I think I have gone through just about any scenario that can rear it's ugly head, so feel free to message me with any questions and I will do my best to point you in the right direction, or worst case let you know what did or did not work for me.
Good luck
 

DazGore

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What about bottling from kegs? Do you lose much carbonation in the process? I often bottle the last few beers in the keg when changing out with no noticable ill-effect short term. Would they maintain that over months?
I find I lose maybe .2 to .3 volumes during bottling from a keg. So if I was aiming for 2.5 volumes I would try to start with a keg at 2.8
 

zoigl

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I had a similar? problem with brand new kegs, one keg would gas up, the remained flat. I use 150 gms of dextrose to gas up to 1.5 bar at room temperature for 2 weeks. After this the kegs are conditioned in a freezer set to 6 c
I tested all seals and gaskets, as well as spunding valves. I ferment for 2 weeks in a conical malt muncher fermenter. I believed that what was happening in my case was that most of the yeast had dropped out of suspension, hence 1 keg would gas up, the other remained flat.
I tried filling 2 kegs swapping the fill every few litres, I no longer have a problem with my kegs. Repeated brews, filled by alternating the kegs have been successful as well. It was driving me crazy trying to work out what was happening. Anyway, I no longer have a problem so I am happy.
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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Hi Darren, definitely. It's drinkable at 2 weeks, but the head and carbonation is not quite there, the extra week or so really makes a difference

Hi Daz...That is exactly what I need to know. At this point in my brewing "career", I am going to follow the guru Grmblz in terms of "naturally" carbonating the keg and I am going to do what you have just mentioned. Whilst "stuffing up" really pisses me off and is costly, it is all a part of the learning curve. Grmblz has been ever so helpful with phone coaching and I state it here publicly ... I thanks him so much. I have not yet received an invoice for his consulting fees so I may need to retract this point !! Thanks Daz...much appreciated
 

DarrenTheDrunk

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Can someone show me how I can do a PM to a member please. I would like to chat to zoigl if possible... Cheers and Beers
 

razz

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Hover the cursor over his name and you will get some options, "Start a conversation" try that one.
 
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