Kegging For Convenience

[Crusty]

Hi guys,
Going to open a can of worms here & ask those of you who keg & bottle, the differences you find between forced carbonation & bottle conditioning. As an example, I kegged an APA, 2.6vol CO2 & bottled the remaining 4 litres or so. Bulk primed with standard white sugar, 2.6vol CO2. Started drinking the kegged at week 2 & had quite a bit left at week 8. Cracked the bottled one at week 8 & for me there was a marked difference. The bottled APA seemed to have a better mouthfeel, tinier bubbles & had better head retention when poured into the glass. Hop & malt aroma was more pronounced as well. I always assumed kegging was a better option & thought that by having a yeast deposit in the bottom of the bottle was a bad idea & may taint the beer with a bready or yeasty taste but believe otherwise now. There is no comparison for convenience as bottling is way more tedious than kegging but convenience aside, what have you guys found when comparing both brews?

 

[DU99]

this help...
http://www.gtp.com.au/westbrew/inewsfiles/...l%20systems.pdf
will interesting to see what answers you get..

 

[Crusty]

this help...
http://www.gtp.com.au/westbrew/inewsfiles/...l%20systems.pdf
will interesting to see what answers you get..

Fully aware of how to run a kegging system, thanks.
I had a 2 tap, 4 corny keg system that I sold recently.
I found results better due to bottle conditioning than forced carbing & wondering who else has noticed the same.
This topic is hugely debated in a couple of USA forums. It seems to be the culture here that unless you keg you seem to be missing out on all of keggings advantages. Apart from convenience, I see no benefit in kegging against bottle conditioning. I routinely did both until recently.

 

[Goofinder]

If you're comparing a beer that has been in a keg in a fridge for 8 weeks and one that has been in a bottle at room temperature for 8 weeks of course you are going to notice a difference. Conditioning is just going to take longer at lower temperatures.

There shouldn't be any difference between forced CO2 and yeast-derived CO2, but if you are adding priming sugar you are waking the yeast up so it seems likely that they would be more effective at conditioning the beer (I have no evidence to back this theory up).

I have naturally carbonated kegs in the past with good results, and after a couple of weeks in the fridge the yeast is pretty much stuck to the bottom of the keg anyway.

Of course none of this answers the question as to why the bottled beer had better malt and hop aroma, unless the bottle beer was served warmer or you have been purging the CO2 out of your keg a bit.

 

[mxd]

my swap beer and the beer I kegged from the same batch both tasted identical after 8 weeks, I have had bottled beer taste worse than my kegged beer, but I don't think I've had it the other way around. I force (250kpa -350kpa for 24 to 36 hrs) carbonate my beers, I find after a week or 2 in the keg (doesn't happen often ) the bubbles are smaller and the head is tighter

 

[Bribie G]

I reckon it would be brilliant if somebody could invent a system that went on the end of your bottles that would trap the sediment and let you have wonderfully clear perfectly carbonated beer. This would absolutely destroy the kegging industry overnight, wouldn't you agree.

 

[DU99]

+1 on sediment
Crusty the bit about carbonation interested me

 

[Nick JD]

I think an overlooked aspect of the difference between kegged and bottled is the extra 0.5% alcohol in the bottle from the priming sugaz and all the metabolic byproducts of the yeast munching it. Not to mention the yeast also eating the acetalaldehyde, some esters, diacetyl, themselves; taking polyphenolic compounds to the bottom with them; partying hard when your cupboard door is closed and last but not least, despising you for tipping their siblings down the drain relegating them to eating shit in the sewer.

 

[Batz]

I reckon it would be brilliant if somebody could invent a system that went on the end of your bottles that would trap the sediment and let you have wonderfully clear perfectly carbonated beer. This would absolutely destroy the kegging industry overnight, wouldn't you agree.

I reckon it would make a big difference Bribe, I love a beer poured from a glass bottle.

Batz

 

[proudscum]

looks expensive but could do the trick?

http://sedexbrewing.com/index.html

 

[Crusty]

looks expensive but could do the trick?

http://sedexbrewing.com/index.html

Off loaded 150 of these two days ago.
Do they work? Yes they do but its not set & forget as normal bottling, heres why.
When you store your bottle upside down, the sediment does indeed make its way to the sediment extractor but small deposits also collect on the sides towards the neck. You really have to, on a weekly basis, shake them up to get that fine sediment in suspension again. I quickly got sick of doin that with my 150 bottles on hand & am now capping the regular way. When storing your bottles the correct orientation, the suspended yeast doesnt settle on the sides & collects in the bottom. This is far better as its prime, cap & ignore for 6-8 weeks.

 

[Crusty]

I reckon it would be brilliant if somebody could invent a system that went on the end of your bottles that would trap the sediment and let you have wonderfully clear perfectly carbonated beer. This would absolutely destroy the kegging industry overnight, wouldn't you agree.

Not too sure about that one.
Seems to be a lot of people on this forum who still think kegging is the be all & end all of the home brewing hobby.
Unless you have a kegging system with 4+ kegs & taps you just aren't are brewer. So many times I hear comments being made that I am moving up to kegging & need advice. Seems that kegging is the pinnacle for us home brewers. I have done both & am not excited one bit about having such a system. Portability & enjoying a fine bottle conditioned home brew is what made me sell my kegging system. Sorry keggers, I just dont see the hype. To those who do, great, enjoy what you have spent many hours to achieve. Each to their own.

 

[manticle]

I'm a bottler Crusty and will be for some time at least. There is something I quite like about the olde worldiness of it and it's easy to give bottles of beer away as a trade, thankyou, gift or to take to a party.

However I think some of the issues with bottling are not just that it is like lebanese bread (PITA) but also consistency. You only have to examine the difference between some commercial bottled beer and the same beer on tap (most Australian Micros are a good start, James Squire is another).

A good bottle conditioned beer is great, a bad one is not. I guess maybe kegs are more consistent, all things being equal and that + convenience is the appeal (plus bling/impress your friends with your tap handles, etc etc.)

One day I may set myself up for kegs but I intend to keep bottling at least some beers at the same time. I think both methods have advantages and drawbacks.

I think the pinnacle for most homebrewers is just good beer, however it's served. Is for me anyway.

@goofinder - I disagree that cold slows conditioning down - my experience and reading is exactly the opposite. I have also read and experienced personally that beer in large volumes (eg keg, fermenter etc) will condition faster than beer in small volumes (eg bottle). Yeast dropping out once they've done their job is a major part of the conditioning process as I see it.

 

[Crusty]

I'm a bottler Crusty and will be for some time at least. There is something I quite like about the olde worldiness of it and it's easy to give bottles of beer away as a trade, thankyou, gift or to take to a party.

However I think some of the issues with bottling are not just that it is like lebanese bread (PITA) but also consistency. You only have to examine the difference between some commercial bottled beer and the same beer on tap (most Australian Micros are a good start, James Squire is another).

A good bottle conditioned beer is great, a bad one is not. I guess maybe kegs are more consistent, all things being equal and that + convenience is the appeal (plus bling/impress your friends with your tap handles, etc etc.)

One day I may set myself up for kegs but I intend to keep bottling at least some beers at the same time. I think both methods have advantages and drawbacks.

I think the pinnacle for most homebrewers is just good beer, however it's served. Is for me anyway.

@goofinder - I disagree that cold slows conditioning down - my experience and reading is exactly the opposite. I have also read and experienced personally that beer in large volumes (eg keg, fermenter etc) will condition faster than beer in small volumes (eg bottle). Yeast dropping out once they've done their job is a major part of the conditioning process as I see it.

I have no intentions of going back to kegging any time soon either, one day a possibility, but I don't think so.
I guess it also depends on what you are brewing as well. I can attest that some brews taste better bottle conditioned than kegged, Belgian Ale is one that springs to mind. I just seemed to notice that my kegged beers felt as though they were kind of watery & Budweiserish compared to the same beer that was bottle conditioned. Definately more aroma, smaller bubbles & a more rounded fuller mouthfeel. I began to question why I was kegging at all. My friends all thought it was pretty cool having beer on tap but the novelty did wear off.

 

[Crunched]

I think the pinnacle for most homebrewers is just good beer, however it's served. Is for me anyway.

I agree.

But for me the beauty of kegging has nothing to do with sediment. It's the ease of it all. Clean one keg, sanitise it, fill it and then carb it up. No cleaning 30-60 bottles, sanitising them all, priming, capping and then storing (together with all the room they take up). Plus with kegging you can be drinking that beer the same day.

 

[manticle]

I have no intentions of going back to kegging any time soon either, one day a possibility, but I don't think so.
I guess it also depends on what you are brewing as well. I can attest that some brews taste better bottle conditioned than kegged, Belgian Ale is one that springs to mind. I just seemed to notice that my kegged beers felt as though they were kind of watery & Budweiserish compared to the same beer that was bottle conditioned. Definately more aroma, smaller bubbles & a more rounded fuller mouthfeel. I began to question why I was kegging at all. My friends all thought it was pretty cool having beer on tap but the novelty did wear off.

I've had some great kegged beers with loads of aroma and small bubbles.

As I said - I don't keg so I can't compare personally at this point. I also like to drink my beers a bit warmer - a lot of kegged beer is sometimes too cold but I believe that's adjustable.

Maybe you should look into real ales served with a beer engine? Convenience of kegging, same conditioning conditions as bottling (still hard to take to a party).
As for Belgians - they rely so much on the characteristics of the yeast. Other beers differ.

 

[WitWonder]

I have no intentions of going back to kegging any time soon either, one day a possibility, but I don't think so.
I guess it also depends on what you are brewing as well. I can attest that some brews taste better bottle conditioned than kegged, Belgian Ale is one that springs to mind. I just seemed to notice that my kegged beers felt as though they were kind of watery & Budweiserish compared to the same beer that was bottle conditioned. Definately more aroma, smaller bubbles & a more rounded fuller mouthfeel. I began to question why I was kegging at all. My friends all thought it was pretty cool having beer on tap but the novelty did wear off.

So you don't like kegging/kegged beer. Got it.

I can't be bothered going over a subject that has been done to death but I will say that dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2, no matter how it gets in there. Maybe your bottled beers are more highly carbed than the kegged beers you had?

 

[roller997]

I would agree that I have always had a better experience with my bottled beer than the equivalent kegged beer.
Not sure what it is but I would definately agree that natural carbonation yields results I personally like better.
It stands to reason that there might be different grades of CO2 so differnt impurities might be present and there is also the side effect that the fermentation consumes most of the remaining Oxygen, reducing the chance of oxidation if you naturally carbonated your beer.
The kegs I naturally carbonated have generally been better than my forced carbonation, however you still have the sediment unless you trim back the liquid post.
Unless it is a special brew I want to store for quite some time, I bottle and keg most of the times as I ferment 42-44 liters so I get a keg and a few bottles for each brew.
I would also agree with Manticle where the larger the vessel, the quicker the priming seems to work.
One thing which I have found is a bit of a pain with bottling is inconsistent carbonation depending on the bottle size.
My larger bottles often have more carbonation than the smaller bottles, even after leaving them to carbonate for a significant period of time.

Cheers

Roller

 

[smileymark]

I bottled a couple of crates for a case swap and remembered how much i enjoyed it. Thought yeh should do this more often.. Yesterday I kegged 100 litres in about 45 mins.. Remembered why I still Keg.. Loved it.

Cheers.

 

[Crusty]

So you don't like kegging/kegged beer. Got it.

I can't be bothered going over a subject that has been done to death but I will say that dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2, no matter how it gets in there. Maybe your bottled beers are more highly carbed than the kegged beers you had?

Oils aint oils i'm afraid. Adding CO2 directly to the beer for carbonation is definately different than a yeast culture consuming sugar & converting that to CO2. There are other factors at work here & its not just CO2 that is produced. I dont know what else it is but there is way more to it than simply CO2 is CO2 no matter where it comes from.

Roller,

The bottled beers that I started drinking after 8 weeks were definately better than the same beer force carbed at week 8. Maybe @ 4deg fridge temperature it may of taken 3 months + to fully condition & maybe that is why the two beers were different. I just know that the bottled beer was more to my liking anyway. I may also have a pretty sensative pallate as well because I have detected a carbonic type taste to some kegged beers in the past & have noticed it ever so mildly in mine on occasion.