Keg Pressure Differential?

[Nevalicious]

Hey all. Have yet to setup any kegging equipment but am starting to get all of the bits together. Picked up my micromatic reg today, 9 odd meters of line, clamps etc etc. I am about to order some perlicks and disconnects from the US from eBay seller Brauman59. Have been in contact with him and got quotes. I figure I may as well fill the postal boxes, so looked around on his site for other gear I will need to complete the keg fridge.

I need to split the gas line up into 4 outlets. I have a question though...

If I use basic barbed line splitters as opposed to some sort of manifold, say I have one beer that I brewed and fermented the week before, has now been carbing the slow (read: non "Ross" method) way and is now drinkable and up to pressure, if, using the line splitters, I go and connect an uncarbonated keg to the system, will the beer from the carbonated keg go up the gas line to the uncarbonated keg due to the pressure differential...?

This may sound somewhat confusing, as I sometimes, well most of the time cannot put my thoughts down in text, but I cannot find any information out there that will confirm or deny what I am saying... I want to know whether there is any gain for me ordering the expandable manifold setup or just using line splitters. I will of course be using a Non Return Valve to prevent beer ruining my reg...

Is this a justified question or am I barking up the wrong tree??

Cheers

Tyler

 

[Cocko]

Ok,

So the advantage with a manifold, taps fiited, is you can leave gas running to one keg and not another..

If you run open line, no taps but 'T' pieces, through your system all you kegs will be sharing 'the air' air = gas.

For example: If you have a carbed keg and a flat keg hooked up to a 't' piece from the gas bottle, the flat keg will not only take gas from the bottle but also steal carb from the carbed keg.. is that what you mean?

Hence a manifold be handy as you can turn off the carbed keg from the equation and leave the 'carbing keg' open to continue gassing...

 

[Nevalicious]

Ok,

So the advantage with a manifold, taps fiited, is you can leave gas running to one keg and not another..

If you run open line, no taps but 'T' pieces, through your system all you kegs will be sharing 'the air' air = gas.

For example: If you have a carbed keg and a flat keg hooked up to a 't' piece from the gas bottle, the flat keg will not only take gas from the bottle but also steal carb from the carbed keg.. is that what you mean?

Hence a manifold be handy as you can turn off the carbed keg from the equation and leave the 'carbing keg' open to continue gassing...

Winner!

This what I wanted to know... The uncarbed keg WILL pinch c02 from my already carbed keg. I only have time to brew maybe once a fortnight (on average) and cannot really do doubles, although I have a 60 lt ss pot and an italian burner... Hmmm?? Therefore I wont be able to fill all four kegs quickly. Manifold will allow me to turn the carbed beer off, gas my fresh beer for a week then put the manifold back to normal.

This is a great help Cocko. Thanks.

Tyler

 

[Thirsty Boy]

No it won't - not unless you don't have the gas hooked up. If you have no pressure on it, then yes, over a period of time the gas and carbonation in the two kegs will equalize. But if you have rpessure hooked up - then the flat keg will get its carbonation from th gas bottle, which will maintain a constant pressure and therefore maintain the pressure in and therefore the carbonation of - the already car bed up keg.

You do need to make sure you hook up the uncarbonated keg first to get pressure into it, or there is am possibility that beer might go up the gas line from your carbonated keg. But that's only till the pressures equalize (effectively instantaneously) and then you are good to have both hooked up at once with no detrimental effects at all.

Check valves ensure against nasty accidents and hooking things up in the wrong order though... Probably worth the investment, although I don't have them on my system.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

My system is used by both my wife and me. We are both capable of doing dumb things, so a relatively idiot-proof system is warranted.

I have the three keg gas outlets all on a cheap manifold system so I can isolate carbed up kegs from wannabe carbed up kegs. I tend to fill the kegs too much and if I am not careful, I blow beer through my gas lines which I do not like. Upstream of the manifold is a non-return valve to ensure whatever I do doesn't go back into my regulator.

There is a single gas outlet which is teed off the line before the manifold. This is for carbing up bottles of lolly water. It has its own non-return valve to ensure I don't get lolly water in my beer.

I started off thinking that if I was always very careful, I would never do the wrong thing and would be okay without all the protection. It didn't take me long to work out where I was mistaken.

 

[Housecat]

No it won't - not unless you don't have the gas hooked up. If you have no pressure on it, then yes, over a period of time the gas and carbonation in the two kegs will equalize. But if you have rpessure hooked up - then the flat keg will get its carbonation from th gas bottle, which will maintain a constant pressure and therefore maintain the pressure in and therefore the carbonation of - the already car bed up keg.

You do need to make sure you hook up the uncarbonated keg first to get pressure into it, or there is am possibility that beer might go up the gas line from your carbonated keg. But that's only till the pressures equalize (effectively instantaneously) and then you are good to have both hooked up at once with no detrimental effects at all.

Check valves ensure against nasty accidents and hooking things up in the wrong order though... Probably worth the investment, although I don't have them on my system.

+1

Have to agree with this, gas loves being equal and as long as you have your gas connected and turned at the same pressure on the carbed keg, it wont lose its gas. It's only if you reduce your pressures that you will lose carbonation.

 

[QldKev]

I'll put my 2 cents in too.

Allowing the gas bottle is connected and turned on and you just have used simple T's. When you first connect your second non-gased keg it will steal some gas from the keg that is gassed up. It will be a couple of seconds before the gas flows enough from the gas bottle to balance it all back out to the set pressure. This is only an issue if you have over filled the first keg past the gas in tube height as it can suck a small amount of beer into the gas line. The few seconds of pressure drop will not affect the carbonation of the first keg. You wont have issues if you dont over fill the kegs. This is exactly how my system has operated for the past few years and I've got no intention of changing it. Even my new setup in the house (last Christmas present)runs exactly the same.

If you are worried you can either go a manifold, or put a non return valve in each gas line. The issue with the manifold, it becomes a manual process that you have to remember to do. Non return valves are excellent but get expensive. I run 7 kegs connected to the gas at 1 time, so 7 x $27 = $189 in non return valves. To me it is easier to just have 1 valve in the main feed line and keep the beer under the gas inlet.

Also I do recommend 1 non return valve in the main line from the bottle to protect the reg.


QldKev

 

[TidalPete]

If you are worried you can either go a manifold, or put a non return valve in each gas line. The issue with the manifold, it becomes a manual process that you have to remember to do. Non return valves are excellent but get expensive. I run 7 kegs connected to the gas at 1 time, so 7 x $27 = $189 in non return valves. To me it is easier to just have 1 valve in the main feed line and keep the beer under the gas inlet.

Also I do recommend 1 non return valve in the main line from the bottle to protect the reg.


QldKev

I have gone down the non return valve route for budget reasons Kev. Got one on each of my four serving kegs, one on the standby carbing keg & also one on the main line from the bottle. Got five of them in a bulk buy some time ago & saved lots of dollars. To get the correct volume for a wheatie or whatever I just disconnect all the other carbed kegs, turn the pressure up for the required volume for a few days & it's done.

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
I'm looking for another cheap non return valve for my party keg setup. Anyone got any links?

TP

 

[Batz]

I have gone down the non return valve route for budget reasons Kev. Got one on each of my four serving kegs, one on the standby carbing keg & also one on the main line from the bottle. Got five of them in a bulk buy some time ago & saved lots of dollars. To get the correct volume for a wheatie or whatever I just disconnect all the other carbed kegs, turn the pressure up for the required volume for a few days & it's done.

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
I'm looking for another cheap non return valve for my party keg setup. Anyone got any links?

TP

$15.00 with free postage

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOME-BREW-BEER-CO2-...=item4154ac9a24

Or one from the US with a shut off

http://www.brewersdiscount.com/item102532.ctlg

 

[argon]

To get the correct volume for a wheatie or whatever I just disconnect all the other carbed kegs, turn the pressure up for the required volume for a few days & it's done.

So does that mean you can maintain your keg at a different CO2 volume to the others through use of NRV? sounds good... but i thought over time it would still reduce in CO2 volume?

 

[TidalPete]

So does that mean you can maintain your keg at a different CO2 volume to the others through use of NRV? sounds good... but i thought over time it would still reduce in CO2 volume?

Only done this once before argon & got a decent head on the wheatie over 2 or 3 weeks (using a bronco tap) until the keg died. Can't in all honesty say the Co2 volume remained constant all that time but I was happy with the result.

Thanks for the links Batz. :beer:

TP

 

[argon]

Only done this once before argon & got a decent head on the wheatie over 2 or 3 weeks (using a bronco tap) until the keg died. Can't in all honesty say the Co2 volume remained constant all that time but I was happy with the result.

Well just have to drink faster then :chug: not such a bad thing for wheats though. Might give this a try. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Doogiechap]

I have gone down the non return valve route for budget reasons Kev. Got one on each of my four serving kegs, one on the standby carbing keg & also one on the main line from the bottle. Got five of them in a bulk buy some time ago & saved lots of dollars. To get the correct volume for a wheatie or whatever I just disconnect all the other carbed kegs, turn the pressure up for the required volume for a few days & it's done.

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
I'm looking for another cheap non return valve for my party keg setup. Anyone got any links?

TP

I purchased these about 12 months ago and had to use Price USA to get them shipped here. It was still heaps cheaper than anything local. There is another mob caled Hop Shop and Go which do the same sort of thing which may be worth checking too
Cheers
Doug

 

[Nevalicious]

I'll put my 2 cents in too.

Allowing the gas bottle is connected and turned on and you just have used simple T's. When you first connect your second non-gased keg it will steal some gas from the keg that is gassed up. It will be a couple of seconds before the gas flows enough from the gas bottle to balance it all back out to the set pressure. This is only an issue if you have over filled the first keg past the gas in tube height as it can suck a small amount of beer into the gas line. The few seconds of pressure drop will not affect the carbonation of the first keg. You wont have issues if you dont over fill the kegs. This is exactly how my system has operated for the past few years and I've got no intention of changing it. Even my new setup in the house (last Christmas present)runs exactly the same.

If you are worried you can either go a manifold, or put a non return valve in each gas line. The issue with the manifold, it becomes a manual process that you have to remember to do. Non return valves are excellent but get expensive. I run 7 kegs connected to the gas at 1 time, so 7 x $27 = $189 in non return valves. To me it is easier to just have 1 valve in the main feed line and keep the beer under the gas inlet.

Also I do recommend 1 non return valve in the main line from the bottle to protect the reg.


QldKev

Excellent. I wont worry bout the manifold then. As TB and yourself have pointed out, nothing much to be gained. IF I have overfilled my kegs, then only for a split second will beer want to shoot up the gas line until such time that the pressure has equalised in both kegs ie: near on instantly.

If I find that this is a problem, i'll use the QD's to disconnect the gas from the carbed kegs whilst pressure equalises in the uncarbed keg, reconnect and away I go.


Thanks for all the replys guys. I had trouble finding an answer on the forums about this, all a massive help to a newb soon-to-be kegger. Cheers

Tyler

 

[cdbrown]

Manifolds are handy and a very neat way to feed multiple kegs, but not necessary. Can either use the barbed T-piece (I think I've seen a barbed 4-way + as well) or the john guest y-splitter.

Don't worry about one keg stealing gas from another - it's not going to happen if the gas bottle is on.

Good job on becoming a kegger, so easy to clean and keg. And it's drinkable in a week compared to waiting for bottles to carb up.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It just occurred to me that my 'manifold' is just three Keg King tees with ball-valves plugged together. I bought them during a 20%-off sale and they cost me $8 each, so my 'manifold' cost $24. Two equal tees would cost $18.

 

[jonocarroll]

Don't worry about one keg stealing gas from another - it's not going to happen if the gas bottle is on and set to at least at the pressure of the highest pressure keg.

Edited, provided that by 'stealing' you mean a net flow of gas from one keg to another, equalising the two pressures.

Note that also, connecting the gas bottle to a higher pressurised keg will lead to back-fill of your bottle unless you have a non-return valve attached. This is a big problem for those that fill past their gas-in diptube.

While I've never heard of it being a problem, just remember that gas can and will move between kegs if they are both connected at the same pressure in the same line (t-piece, manifold, etc). There won't be a net flow of gas, but diffusion will take gas (and the constituent aromatic molecules, etc) from one keg over to the other, and vice-versa. It's mainly a potential problem if you have an airborne infection in one of your kegs that doesn't mind CO₂.

 

[NickB]

No problem without a manifold, as many others have mentioned. Here's how mine is set up:





Cheers

 

[Nevalicious]

No problem without a manifold, as many others have mentioned. Here's how mine is set up:


View attachment 42393


Cheers

:icon_offtopic:

Nick, I have to say... Looked at your bar in the kegging thread earlier in the year... It was a massive inspiration!

Having said that, mine is going to be nothing like it (fridge, not remote kegarator!), but still an inspiration. I'm sure its been said a million times, but awesome setup!!

 

[ratchie]

Edited, provided that by 'stealing' you mean a net flow of gas from one keg to another, equalising the two pressures.

Note that also, connecting the gas bottle to a higher pressurised keg will lead to back-fill of your bottle unless you have a non-return valve attached. This is a big problem for those that fill past their gas-in diptube.

While I've never heard of it being a problem, just remember that gas can and will move between kegs if they are both connected at the same pressure in the same line (t-piece, manifold, etc). There won't be a net flow of gas, but diffusion will take gas (and the constituent aromatic molecules, etc) from one keg over to the other, and vice-versa. It's mainly a potential problem if you have an airborne infection in one of your kegs that doesn't mind CO₂.

My gas line is split into 3 with 2 tees,my GF said the soda water tasted beery not that i noticed, but its on a seperate line and bottle now just have to wait to see if she notices any difference.