I've stuffed up! - advice would be appreciated

[skankingaround]

Hi all,

I have had my first crack at doing two lagers at the moment without thinking it through in enough detail, I've always dry hopped in primary and never bothered transferring to secondary predominately due to the styles of beer and risk of oxidization. Given this was two batches of (my first) Lager and the lengthy upcoming lagering period I have given it a diacetyl rest and this evening racked to secondaries.....

Here is where I think I've gone wrong - I foolishly picked up some 25L fermenters (water containers) for secondaries,

Brew 1 has what I would call an 'ok' amount of head space and is maybe 3/4 - 4/5ths full.
Brew 2 is only about 2/3 full (foolishly bought the discounted FWK that wasnt full).

I forked out about $40-$50 for the 25L containers with the intention of using them, they are also cylinder shaped probably making it worse with the increased exposure. Also I've invested about 3 weeks into this so far and the brews weren't the cheapest...

Do I

a) cut my losses and hope that oxidization doesn't occur?
b) head out and grab some smaller settling cubes? / carboy's
c) look into adding something eg sanitized marbles to reduce the head space?
d) add something in to trigger slight fermentation to hopefully create a blanket above the beer?


I don't keg either so that option is out and don't have any CO2 but could look into hitting up a friend in Brisbane to assist if there are any options there.

any recommendations are most appreciated. I don't intend to lager often.

 

[hairydog]

Hey Skanking,

I am no expert as i have only done a dozen lagers and my process is different,i would go the cut my losses option with a 2 week
condition period before bottling.You have gone to a lot of effort just leave as is and you will have less chance of infection etc.
You might find the head space over time may have minimal oxidisation issues,good luck.

 

[MHB]

At this point - leave it alone, there isn't much you can do that wont make things worse rather than better.
Just of interest, no shape has a smaller surface area to volume than a cylinder, it is the best shape for maturation vessels.

True minimising head space for maturation vessels is a good idea, I suppose the take home lesson is to plan properly. or as you put it "thinking it through properly",
nothing teaches like experience.
I would rack to the lagering vessel near the end of the primary ferment, let the ferment complete if you need a diacetyl rest do it in the lagering vessel, then cool it down to lagering temperatures slowly (over a couple of days). That way the vessel and the beer is full of CO2, so O2 uptake will be minimised
Mark

 

[quadbox]

Just of interest, no shape has a smaller surface area to volume than a cylinder, it is the best shape for maturation vessels.

Sphere?

 

[TheWiggman]

I would rack to the lagering vessel near the end of the primary ferment, let the ferment complete if you need a diacetyl rest do it in the lagering vessel, then cool it down to lagering temperatures slowly (over a couple of days). That way the vessel and the beer is full of CO2, so O2 uptake will be minimised
Mark

This is a new one for me. The amount of absorbed CO2 affects the absorption rate and/or capacity of other gasses?

Ed: on the pedanticness of areas, volumes, shapes etc. For head space, the actual shape of the fermenter is irrelevant if it's a simple protrusion (or more accurately, a uniform prism) as the volume above the shape is simply length x area of said shape. What Mark is referring to is relevant for porous materials like HDPE but only for extended maturation times. As for a sphere, well yes a sphere is better in a typical case. But if the radius:height is <0.0291 (approx.) a cylinder is better. Though a spherical fermenter can stay the hell away from my brewery.

 

[MHB]

No, but O2 has to get in, if there is an overpressure of CO2 the flow of gas will physically impede the ingress of air, O2 has to impinge on the surface to be taken up.
That's why I would recommend racking when there is still CO2 being formed, the beer is saturated, turbulence created during transfer will cause some gassing off displacing air from the destination vessel. The continuing fermentation will help exclude air.
Mark

 

[Bribie G]

Sphere?

Trust the Poms


On topic, if you get into kegging it's easy to split off a nice long CO2 line with an inline on/off tap and use it for flushing headspaces in vessels. Some AG brewers even flush their grain bins.
So don't chuck your new 25L containers just yet, they could come into their own for lagering and are good for primary anyway.

 

[droid]

if you don't use the sanitized marbles i'd be interested in any bots...