Is Your Beer Suitable For Vegetarians?!

[Wortgames]

Apparently, the US government has set the acceptable level of aphids in hops to be 250 per gram :blink:

http://archive.salon.com/health/col/roac/2..._lab/print.html

 

[sah]

Hahaha I wouldn't have thought about the aphids. Although today I scraped off some from a tomato from the garden I was about to put on my sandwhich. The only meat I eat is seafood and shellfish. However, I'm not too fussy. I use gelatin as a fining for instance.

Scott

 

[Screwtop]

Does that mean I have to leave the Black Pudding out of my Special Stout?

 

[PostModern]

I am fussy enough a vego to not fine with gelatine, but like SAH, I eat the sea creatures. Nothing to stop me from pitching some issinglass should I choose to fine in the fermenter, although the Mrs wouldn't drink issinglass fined beer. I wonder how agar would perform?

But being a seafood eater, I also have no probs with eating insects. Tons of snakes, lizards, frogs, rodents, etc are killed in harvesting barley. I don't lose much sleep over it. If a couple aphids per gram of pellets were in my hops, I'd also sleep well enough. There's only so much we can do, dammit!

 

[albrews]

I am fussy enough a vego to not fine with gelatine, but like SAH, I eat the sea creatures. Nothing to stop me from pitching some issinglass should I choose to fine in the fermenter, although the Mrs wouldn't drink issinglass fined beer. I wonder how agar would perform?

But being a seafood eater, I also have no probs with eating insects. Tons of snakes, lizards, frogs, rodents, etc are killed in harvesting barley. I don't lose much sleep over it. If a couple aphids per gram of pellets were in my hops, I'd also sleep well enough. There's only so much we can do, dammit!

hi, yes ,issinglass does seem to give a fishy flavour to a lightly hopped beer. i tried a fruit beer at a local brewhouse and held the glass up to light to see if the goldfish was in the glass. at a guess, issinglass was used in the brewing process. actually it made me feel a bit off colour.
as i understand it, issinglass is from the swim bladder of the sturgeon fish.

cheers alan

 

[sah]

Does that mean I have to leave the Black Pudding out of my Special Stout?

The oysters too?

Scott

 

[sah]

hi, yes ,issinglass does seem to give a fishy flavour to a lightly hopped beer. i tried a fruit beer at a local brewhouse and held the glass up to light to see if the goldfish was in the glass. at a guess, issinglass was used in the brewing process. actually it made me feel a bit off colour.

Could it have anything to do with what the barmaid was doing before she served you? :huh:

Scott

 

[albrews]

The oysters too?

Scott

hi, you would have to leave the chicken out of the chicken {cock} ale.

cheers, alan

 

[albrews]

Could it have anything to do with what the barmaid was doing before she served you? :huh:

Scott

hi ,
i forgot to take that into account, and i would need to know the full story. ha,ha,ha

cheers alan

 

[peas_and_corn]

I am fussy enough a vego to not fine with gelatine, but like SAH, I eat the sea creatures. Nothing to stop me from pitching some issinglass should I choose to fine in the fermenter, although the Mrs wouldn't drink issinglass fined beer. I wonder how agar would perform?

But being a seafood eater, I also have no probs with eating insects. Tons of snakes, lizards, frogs, rodents, etc are killed in harvesting barley. I don't lose much sleep over it. If a couple aphids per gram of pellets were in my hops, I'd also sleep well enough. There's only so much we can do, dammit!

Wouldn't that make you a pescetarian?

 

[PostModern]

People have called me worse than that!

 

[MHB]

There has been a big debate going on in brewing circles about isinglass, it was kicked off by the EU deciding that people allergic to fish products might have a bad reaction to the use of isinglass.
This in spite of the fact that not one case has ever been reported.

To the best of my knowledge they got over it and its back to being used, even in beer brewer under the Reinheitsgebot, it is permitted because none of it remains in the finished beer. (That includes fish smell)

"The use of isinglass finings in the preparation of brewery conditioned beer is not universal. It is largely a UK practice deriving from its effectiveness for cask beer. There is, however, renewed interest in the USA and the use of finings is increasing in Australia and Africa. Isinglass finings improve foam stability of beer by removing lipid material such as fatty acids and phospholipids, which are foam negative. This is an important secondary characteristic. The use of isinglass along with silica hydrogel has also recently been described (Shiel, 1999) and improvements in filter runs (by as much as threefold) and actual beer shelf-life were demonstrated. This seems likely to be as a result of the huge removal by isinglass of particles < 4.5_m in diameter that will cause blockage of the filter and have the potential to cause haze in the beer.
Sedimentation of yeast in the presence of isinglass is rapid and compact easily removable tank bottoms are formed. This may require further processing by centrifugation or filtration to recover entrapped beer and finally separate the yeast if this is deemed economically sensible. It is clearly established (Shiel, 1999) that isinglass is completely removed during the brewing process and is not detectable in finished beer."

Brewing Science and practice

Isinglass is believed to be 4-8 times more effective than hoof gelatine. Yes is mostly made from the swim bladders of a type of mullet from the Mekong delta region.

Not only can isinglass be used in a primary fermenter and in the rack; it is also effective in the lagering tank, it will help the condensed protein precipitate more quickly.

A prepared liquid form is widely available and costs less than a dollar a dose, if you want to fine the beer use isinglass rather than gelatine.

Because it works better.

MHB

 

[dj_sdix]

Wouldn't that make you a pescetarian?

nah, like me he's a vegequarian

Si

 

[PostModern]

Isinglass is believed to be 4-8 times more effective than hoof gelatine. Yes is mostly made from the swim bladders of a type of mullet from the Mekong delta region.

Not only can isinglass be used in a primary fermenter and in the rack; it is also effective in the lagering tank, it will help the condensed protein precipitate more quickly.

A prepared liquid form is widely available and costs less than a dollar a dose, if you want to fine the beer use isinglass rather than gelatine.

Because it works better.

MHB

Hook me up, Mark!

nah, like me he's a vegequarian

Si

I told you I've been called worse!

 

[MHB]

PM I don't advertise on AHB (outside the retail section) so my usual response.

Available from any good home brew shop, Brewcraft reorder code is 45124.

It's supplied in 100 mL bottles, be warned they have about 4 different labels that they stick on the bottle, 1 of them has the right instructions which are 10 mL (a cap) in 25 L of beer, can be added as little as 4 hours before transfer, best left overnight.

Keep refrigerated.

Good brewing

MHB

 

[dj_sdix]

Just for reference, here's a pretty comprehensive list of (mainly UK) vegetarian beers wines and spirts

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geraint.bevan...rian_beers.html

Cheers
Si

 

[Eugene]

I am fussy enough a vego to not fine with gelatine, but like SAH, I eat the sea creatures. Nothing to stop me from pitching some issinglass should I choose to fine in the fermenter, although the Mrs wouldn't drink issinglass fined beer. I wonder how agar would perform?

But being a seafood eater, I also have no probs with eating insects. Tons of snakes, lizards, frogs, rodents, etc are killed in harvesting barley. I don't lose much sleep over it. If a couple aphids per gram of pellets were in my hops, I'd also sleep well enough. There's only so much we can do, dammit!

I am a little uneducated about the whole Vego thing, but how can you be a veggie if you eat seafood, or doesnt fish count.

I have never understood the whole concept of being a vegitarian, is it for Health reasons (allergies, fats etc) or for moral reasons, like you said snakes, birds insects etc all killed during the harvest of Barley, along with all grains.

I will stop now as I feel I could say things that may offend you, and I dont want to do that, each to thier own, but an explanation of why you eat what you do would maybe help me understand your lifestyle and that of other veggies, please dont take any offence from my above remarks, none was intended, but I have asked the same questions of a few vegans I know, and they got the ***** and stormed off because they thought I was being a smart ass. im not, I just want to know what drives you to be a veggie.

 

[sah]

I am a little uneducated about the whole Vego thing, but how can you be a veggie if you eat seafood, or doesnt fish count.

I have never understood the whole concept of being a vegitarian, is it for Health reasons (allergies, fats etc) or for moral reasons, like you said snakes, birds insects etc all killed during the harvest of Barley, along with all grains.

I will stop now as I feel I could say things that may offend you, and I dont want to do that, each to thier own, but an explanation of why you eat what you do would maybe help me understand your lifestyle and that of other veggies, please dont take any offence from my above remarks, none was intended, but I have asked the same questions of a few vegans I know, and they got the ***** and stormed off because they thought I was being a smart ass. im not, I just want to know what drives you to be a veggie.

There are lots of different reasons people choose vegetarian / vegan diets. They include health, religious, environmental, ethics and probably more. If you are interested in the details there is lots of information on the web. There is some interesting reading at this stie http://www.vnv.org.au/. Be warned some vego's are pretty passionate. Personally, it's a health choice.

regards
Scott

 

[PostModern]

I am a little uneducated about the whole Vego thing, but how can you be a veggie if you eat seafood, or doesnt fish count.

I have never understood the whole concept of being a vegitarian, is it for Health reasons (allergies, fats etc) or for moral reasons, like you said snakes, birds insects etc all killed during the harvest of Barley, along with all grains.

I will stop now as I feel I could say things that may offend you, and I dont want to do that, each to thier own, but an explanation of why you eat what you do would maybe help me understand your lifestyle and that of other veggies, please dont take any offence from my above remarks, none was intended, but I have asked the same questions of a few vegans I know, and they got the ***** and stormed off because they thought I was being a smart ass. im not, I just want to know what drives you to be a veggie.

I'm an ethical vegetarian. I don't believe in killing anything to eat that has a consciousness that I can relate to. I don't think shellfish have a consciousness. All invertebrates, imho, have no capacity for self-awareness, so I have no issues eating them. All mammals and birds I believe are aware of themselves and to some extent, other lives around them. I believe they have emotions similar to ours, and thoughts like ours (without the language and other abstractions we've built upon our language systems) which is why I believe it is morally wrong to kill these creatures for food, as it is not necessary for our own survival.

Fish, I have twinges of guilt about eating, as they are vertebrates and are in possession of a central nervous system and cerebral cortex, but I don't believe they have a consciousness that I could relate to... but I'm probably wrong. I eat more shellfish than fish, and almost all small fish will end their lives in the belly of another animal anyway, so humans taking them is only a delay of the inevitable.

I'm not like the Buddhists who think that eating red meat is best because the total number of bellies filled per life lost is greater than, say, fish. I think the ~level~ of life and consciousness lost is what matters. I think less of snacking on a prawn than I do of setting a mouse trap, let alone slaughtering a bovine.

Anyway, we're getting way off track here. I'm an atheist, so there's no religion in my arguments, just an extension of the Golden Rule to encompass other species. If you want to talk about this or point out how stupid my ethics are, feel free to mail me : pomo at exemail dot com dot au rather than further derail this thread.

Cheers,
PoMo.

 

[Finite]

Steve Anghold told me that if you have enough aphids ground up in a batch of hops, it might conceivably make the beer taste sweeter, because aphids secrete a sweet fluid.

Was wondering where that extra efficiency was comming from. :blink: