Is Your Beer Suitable For Vegetarians?!

[PostModern]

So karma is inversely proportional to mass? :huh:

Sounds like those guys believe it is proportional to mass. Is stepping on an ant (or killing a bogan) as great a tragedy as running over a dog (or killing a science professor)?

I don't go in for Buddhism, although I have respect for Buddhists. Seems that a small comment of mine about Buddhism led to a lot of discussion. I also don't believe in karma. I'm my kind of vegetarian (pescatarian) because I feel better about myself living this lifestyle, not because I expect cosmic pay-back.

SPS
Yes, I have one pair of leather Doc Martin shoes for work, going out, etc. Mostly I wear canvas and rubber shoes (Dunlop Volleys, gym boots, etc). My Docs last about 5 years on average.

 

[sstacey]

Thanks Post Modern.

This quote also related to my question:

buying meat is being part of the parket thus you are reposnsible for the death of the animal

I reckon it must be the same with leather shoes and belts.

 

[PostModern]

Fair call, but I think the leather shoes are a by-product of the meat industry rather than the other way around. Leather is the waste product being used for practical purposes.

Put it this way: if leather was indestructible and lasted forever, literally, and humans were not fickle about fashion, would people continue to slaughter cattle for meat and toss the leather aside? I believe they would, so buying leather shoes twice a decade is not ~quite~ the same as a twice weekly trip to the butcher.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I never realised that there was a vegetarian constituency on AHB

I'll eat anything put in front of me

Cheers

 

[Wortgames]

I never realised that there was a vegetarian constituency on AHB

Me neither! This thread has become fascinating - I actually posted it as a bit of a joke, when I read about the aphids. I wouldn't have thought there were many homebrewers that didn't eat steak!

It just goes to show that we're all brothers in wort, boguns and hippies alike...

 

[Cortez The Killer]

It just goes to show that we're all brothers in wort, boguns and hippies alike...

:lol: :lol:

 

[PostModern]

I never realised that there was a vegetarian constituency on AHB

Well, there's only a small number of us owning up. Two pescatarians, and we're both IBU's!

 

[bugwan]

I have a friend who is vegan, although he eats honey. He tells me that two (vegan) friends of his no longer talk to him since finding out! They're some pretty serious convictions!

It's good to see some intelligent conversation about the subject, especially from the Iron Wolf Brewery... Sadly, at least half of the vegetarians I have spoken to over the years are the soap-box variety who are more interested in converting me through guilt and misplaced arrogance than simply living with their choices. They're the ones who give alternative diets a bad name and polarise the 'debate'.

My GF's a vego and most of my meals are too, these days. I get a meat-hit often enough to still be classed as an omnivore though

PS. No isinglass in my beers either....just to stay on topic

 

[Wortgames]

My GF's a vego and most of my meals are too, these days.

Good for you - you'll probably be fitter and healthier for it! My partner's just as much carnivore as I am, so we'll probably both die of heart attacks, from karma, or from failing to 'give it a minute or two' before walking into the bathroom...

 

[bindi]

Wow it's my 2nd day back and you have all gone posting mad :blink: it will take me a week to read it all.
I am not a Vego as I eat seafood a couple of days a week and have so for 16 years, I don't eat any land animals except for an egg [free range] every so often, I did it for health reasons, my wife did it for the other reason, funny how bacon still smells good all 16+ years later but I am sure I would be sick if I ate any.

 

[Ross]

Bacon alone is one reason I'd never turn Vege... One of the nicest smells you can wake up too B)

cheers Ross

 

[PostModern]

Bacon alone is one reason I'd never turn Vege... One of the nicest smells you can wake up too B)

cheers Ross

Pork and chicken were the first meats I gave up. Take yourself to a commercial piggery and check out the lives those creatures live before they're slaughtered. I don't want to get all preachy, and have managed to avoid it so far, but try and imagine the life that intensively-farmed animals experience... and that pork product eaters contribute to. If you're happy with that, fine, I won't try and dissuade you, but I'm not happy to be part of that market.

 

[Stuster]

Just for statistical purposes, I'll also say that I'm a vegetarian for pretty much the same reasons as PoMo. I don't eat fish, but do wear leather shoes and eat eggs (free range at home). It may not be perfectly consistent, but so what? Who is? Bacon still smells nice to me, but meat just doesn't seem like food to me any more.

Cortez, Tangent and others, I guess I'll have to be very careful if we meet. :lol:

 

[Kai]

Pork and chicken were the first meats I gave up. Take yourself to a commercial piggery and check out the lives those creatures live before they're slaughtered. I don't want to get all preachy, and have managed to avoid it so far, but try and imagine the life that intensively-farmed animals experience... and that pork product eaters contribute to. If you're happy with that, fine, I won't try and dissuade you, but I'm not happy to be part of that market.

I'm not happy with it, but I know that if I boycott pork the only real outcome will be no pork for me and I like that even less.

 

[PostModern]

I long ago realised there is no sense in trying to convert the world to my lifestyle, but every time I've participated in online discussions about vegetarianism, the leather shoe thing comes up, as well as a couple of hard core carnivores doing back-flips to justify their meat eating and/or call me a hypocrite. I'm not political about it, this is only the second or third thread I've mentioned my food ethics on this board, it's just a personal thing for myself and my family and I think we're better off for it.

Long may we remain "brothers in wort".

 

[peas_and_corn]

Sounds like those guys believe it is proportional to mass. Is stepping on an ant (or killing a bogan) as great a tragedy as running over a dog (or killing a science professor)?

I don't go in for Buddhism, although I have respect for Buddhists. Seems that a small comment of mine about Buddhism led to a lot of discussion. I also don't believe in karma. I'm my kind of vegetarian (pescatarian) because I feel better about myself living this lifestyle, not because I expect cosmic pay-back.

As far as I'm aware, it's not an issue about karma, but one of attitude towards life. One of the main rules is to not take life because it is a consciousness, and being willing to destroy a consciousness is indicative of negative emotions, and their existence needs to be eliminated. This is part of the path, so to speak.

I hope I'm making sense here.

 

[Kai]

I long ago realised there is no sense in trying to convert the world to my lifestyle, but every time I've participated in online discussions about vegetarianism, the leather shoe thing comes up, as well as a couple of hard core carnivores doing back-flips to justify their meat eating and/or call me a hypocrite. I'm not political about it, this is only the second or third thread I've mentioned my food ethics on this board, it's just a personal thing for myself and my family and I think we're better off for it.

Long may we remain "brothers in wort".

Absolutely, the militants on all sides give everyone a bad rap. I've seen it all before.

Let the only fomenting be the fermenting of our beer.

 

[glenos]

This is out of curiosity, you allow yourself to eat fish as they are less aware, what about reptiles?

The reason I ask is that this came up a chrissy drinks, our resident vego (who eats fish) said that fish is OK but not meat (wouldn't even touch it) and not reptiles either. We figured fish have scales and reptiles have scales so it must be OK.

BTW, She has just finished her honours project that involved sticking needles into lizards eyes, so I doubt it is a consciousness thing. From talking with her it is more about growing up on a sheep farm.

As for my food habits, I eat most things I have no qualms about meat. and I am sure that a shark, lion, crocodile or bear would have no qualms about eating me. Does that make me less aware then they are?

 

[Kai]

Sounds like those guys believe it is proportional to mass. Is stepping on an ant (or killing a bogan) as great a tragedy as running over a dog (or killing a science professor)?

oops, missed this. Don't they mean bad karma specifically is proportional? I should have specified originally.

Also. you only eat a little bit of the cow in a sitting, so theoretically the bad karma should be diluted between all the consumers of that animal. Conversely, imagine eating a cow's weight in fish, that'd be a lot of bad karma.

 

[sah]

I was hoping this discussion wouldn't progress to this stage. Because this is brew forum and this topic isn't particularly related. There are plenty of Internet resources that have debated this topic in detail. I'm an atheist and I appreciate many teachings from Buddhism.

Buddhism related:

One of the Buddha's ethical precepts for his monks (not lay followers) was to refrain from killing. Incidentally another one is to refrain from taking intoxicants that could lead the mind to loosing heedlessness.

This has been interpreted differently in various schools of Buddhism over various cultures and over time.

The idea of merit is about point scoring. In my opinion it is for folk who are born into the culture of "this" religion but aren't particularly motivated about their spirituality. They follow certain rules because it scores points. Merit was inherited from Brahmanism and before.

The concept about not taking the life of animals to my thinking is based upon the old day thought of karma linked to rebirth and the realms of existence.

Many modern Buddhists disregard this Hindu / Brahman concept. They acknowledge the concept of rebirth is false. Instead they understand karma more literally to be the law of cause and affect.

This is not to discount the value of the life of animals from an ethical standpoint. I know many modern Buddhists hold all life valuable, even plant life.

I think what I've written here would offend most traditional Buddhists.

Thed only reason I'm posting this is for those who may not be aware of the diverse spread of Buddhist thought and practice. I'm more than happy for anyone to challenge or refute these opinions.

regards
Scott