Is This Urn Any Good?

[smilinggilroy]

Hi All,
Saw this urn on e-pay and was wondering if it would be O.K. to use for BIAB?
It comes within my limited budget but don't want to waste the $$$ if it isn't any good.
Can anybody advise me on this please, all opinions appreciated.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=280534952569

Cheers.

 

[Bribie G]

It looks like aluminium? Maybe not as durable as SS.
Thirty litres is a bit small for full BIAB batches but it's doable. Thirsty Boy put up a thread on this some time ago.

 

[bignath]

smilinggilroy,

i purchased this unit not long ago (2-3months perhaps) and i got 4 maybe 5 brews out of it before it lost power to one of the elements mid boil. It resulted in a temp drop from rolling boil, to struggling to maintain 90 degrees for the second half of the boil.
Finished the brew, and next day pulled the bottom off of it to try and locate the problem. Found what looked like a burnt out wire going to one of the elements, which i cleaned up, and rewired back into position. hasn't worked properly since.
The tap is plastic, even though it doesn't look like it. The first thing i did was replace it with a 1/2 inch ball valve.

However, whilst the urn was working, it did a fantastic job i must say. Mine just crapped out on me. Not sure if it is an inherent problem with the design, or maybe i just got a dodgy one.

The element is concealed which is great, and it maintained a temp very nicely to the readings on the thermostat. I have since gone back to doing boils on my portable gas cookers and some stainless pots and this is working well for me.

One day i will replace it when i have some spare coin, as it did what i wanted it to do, but the next one i get will be 40 litres, and either the crown or a birko.

Hope this helps,

bignath

 

[Mobbee007]

I also got one as did another AHB member, I got about 6 brews out of it but my mate didn't even get 1 so the seller replaced it and it crapped itself again 1st go. I'm getting sparkies at work to see if they can replace the elements but I would save and get a good 40L one from one of the sponsors if I had the choice. That said when it was working it was awesome
my 2c
cheers

 

[RobB]

Have a look at this thread, in which BIABers compare their urns:

Link

At first, the concealed element in the crown gets a big thumbs up, but towards the end you'll notice a few sad posts about dying elements. This is probably because an exposed element has the wort constantly stripping away the heat, whereas a concealed element will probably get much hotter.

 

[Bribie G]

Have a look at this thread, in which BIABers compare their urns:

Link

At first, the concealed element in the crown gets a big thumbs up, but towards the end you'll notice a few sad posts about dying elements. This is probably because an exposed element has the wort constantly stripping away the heat, whereas a concealed element will probably get much hotter.

Interesting point, never thought of it that way. Crown now do an exposed element model. bought one from a sponsor at the top of the page and it's going very well indeed.

 

[big78sam]

I also bought this urn and the elements blew after a few brews, one then the other. I know BjornJ had the same issues. I ended up buying a 40L Birko and wish I had have done this in the first instance.

 

[tavas]

I have this urn also and have only done a dummy run boiling water. It is cheap stainless: you can see by the fact it is thin and the element (concealed) does get rust spots on it. It is 30 litres which is a bit small for BIAB.

Having read a couple of posts I might be hitting my brother up (sparky) and doing a quick re-wire before getting serious.

However, you do get what you pay for and I knew a $100 urn wasn't going t last 40 years. If BIAB works, and SWMBO is happy with the end resault, then i can apply for a CER and get a Birko or a Crown.

If it does crap out you could use it as a 30l pot and put a removable element into it. Coupled with a Tempmate or similar you would have temperature control.

 

[gone brewing]

I have this urn and must be luckier than most as I have done 19 batches in it so far and it's still going strong. It boils too vigorously and I have a regulator that it plugs into that I use to control the power going to the urn.

30L is easily big enough to do standard size batches but instead of having all the water that you need in the urn from the start, you have to add some after mashing. I usually use about 20L of water for the mash, then add 8L of water after pulling the bag (I do a little dunk sparge but it isn't necessary) and then add about 5L over the course of the boil. I aim for 25L in the urn at the end of the boil and get 20.5L into the cube, leaving the rest as trub.

I would say that a 40L urn is a better size but then again if the element shit itself I would get an immersion heater and keep using it.

 

[Nevalicious]

I have this urn and must be luckier than most as I have done 19 batches in it so far and it's still going strong. It boils too vigorously and I have a regulator that it plugs into that I use to control the power going to the urn.

30L is easily big enough to do standard size batches but instead of having all the water that you need in the urn from the start, you have to add some after mashing. I usually use about 20L of water for the mash, then add 8L of water after pulling the bag (I do a little dunk sparge but it isn't necessary) and then add about 5L over the course of the boil. I aim for 25L in the urn at the end of the boil and get 20.5L into the cube, leaving the rest as trub.

I would say that a 40L urn is a better size but then again if the element shit itself I would get an immersion heater and keep using it.

Gone brewing... Any pics or ideas as to what this regulator is... Those eBay urns are 2800w or 14 odd amps. I have one of these urns (spur of the moment type of purchase), thats all and if I can make it last for as many brews or more as you have that would be a bonus...

Cheers

Tyler

 

[BjornJ]

As big78sam mentioned I bought one of these as well.

see this link for pics of it breaking

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...20urn&st=40


They work great but seem to break? Mine broke, I sent it back and got another for free.
The second one broke in the same way and I just gave in and bought a Birko 40 litre urn from Allquip in Sydney for $252.


(it was then stolen some months ago, so today I bought another Birko urn from Allquip but that's just my bad luck I guess!)

You will have no problems making a full sized batch in a 30 litre urn, just calculate your full volume and gravities, then add water to the fermenter. Easier in 40 litre urn but can be done in 30 litre urn as well in my experience. (Beersmith has a dilution calculator as well so you measure OG and calculate IBUs, OG and volume easily)


I still have my 30 litre ebay urn in the garage with the big heating element broken and the smaller 1000W working. Anyone who wants it is free to come and pick it up, I am sure it will work great if you plug the still working 1000 W element in a wall socket and add another heating element from a kettle, drill a hole for a $50 ebay heater or something like that. Pickup in Brighton-le-Sands, NSW.

Bjorn



thanks
Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

(pics are on page 2 of that other thread)

 

[gone brewing]

Gone brewing... Any pics or ideas as to what this regulator is... Those eBay urns are 2800w or 14 odd amps. I have one of these urns (spur of the moment type of purchase), thats all and if I can make it last for as many brews or more as you have that would be a bonus...

Cheers

Tyler

G'day Tyler
It is a phase fired controller. It reduces the average voltage by chopping off some part of the sine wave each time it passes through zero volts. How much is chopped off is determined by the setting of the potentiometer. This works fine on a resistive load like the element in an urn. I got it from the sparkies at work who had made it in house years ago but weren't using it any more.

 

[Nevalicious]

G'day Tyler
It is a phase fired controller. It reduces the average voltage by chopping off some part of the sine wave each time it passes through zero volts. How much is chopped off is determined by the setting of the potentiometer. This works fine on a resistive load like the element in an urn. I got it from the sparkies at work who had made it in house years ago but weren't using it any more.

Right. So its like a massive light dimmer then. Cool, expensive, but cool

The last thing I want is to have a full rolling boil going and have the elements shit themselves. I have used others past horror stories and taken some precautions. Firstly, these do get way too much of a boil on and are susceptible to volcano-esque boil overs (2800w or around 14A is alot and quite frankly isn't legal on the supplied 10A plug <_< ) and the 1840-2000w element will give a much more calm boil. Legalities aside, and secondly, I didn't want to get halfway thru a boil and have one or both of the supplied elements shit themselves and have to resort to BjornJ's quick thinking from the above post (nice work BTW!!) So I went to Big Double Ewe and purchased a plastic corded kettle for the grand total of $7.90 and proceeded to bastardise it.

I dismantled it so I only had the element and rear housing left. Removed the switch mechanism and kept the internal boil dry protection (it works FYI) and supplied neon wired between the elements active and neutral (drilled a hole in the lower urn casing where the thermo is and mounted the neon there). I sucked it up and drilled a 40mm hole in the bottom of my currently working urn just to the side of the standard element housing. I needed to do a few mods to make the element screw up tightly against itself due to the thin wall of the urn. As it turned out, it works, really well and doesn't leak which is a real plus (duh?!)

Again, I know its been done heaps with the likes of the electricians nightmare, the Bucket O Death, but its just a thought for all you ppl out there that have purchased one of these and had or are worrying that the elements are about to shit it. As always, earth where applicable, or if unsure, please use a licensed sparky mate or family member... We are a dime a dozen :icon_cheers:

Cheers

Tyler

Photos:

Drilling into my working (gulp) urn


Bottom view of urn


Filing the burrs off


Silicon grommet in place


Rear view of dismantled element (the posts the screws go in to bring the two parts together were hacked down about 2 ish mm so they do up tighter together)


Rear of element assembly with switch removed and neon wires visible

 

[Nevalicious]

Just starting the test run (got up reasonably quickly too)


Cable entry and neon mounted


Underside view after assembly


Hope this helps anyone???

Cheers and beers

Tyler

 

[BjornJ]

Tyler, excellent work!

Wish I had that kind of skills and tools, then I would have revived my ebay urn for sure.


Good stuff,

Bjorn

 

[Nevalicious]

Also forgot to mention... At only $7.90 I went and bought 2 more of those kettles today to use as spare elements. I dont know how they'll hold up to 90min boils but as has been mentioned before because the element is exposed to wort, this gives a medium for excess heat to dissipate from so to speak (heat rises and all that), and thus may just make it last a little longer than a concealed element. Nevertheless, I now how two spare elemtns in case it dies.

Also, the supplied elements can get 25lts of water to boiling in about 25 - 30mins. Bloody quick. Might just use the supplied elements whilst still in operation to get to strike/or boiling and then switch over to the kettle element.

Thanks too BjornJ. I'm happy this can be saved. All I need is a decent 3 piece 1/2 in ball valve (visiting Wayne at Beerbelly 2moro) as the supplied tap is a POS, and this might just save me from forking out for that 50lt ally pot, nasa burner and regulator I've been eyeing off.....

Beers

Tyler

 

[bignath]

Tyler,

you are a deadset champion!!

i have just dismantled a kettle i bought from K Mart 1 hour ago, pulled it apart and the element and switching system is identical. I am going to go back and by a handful more kettles - $9 each!!

As a side note, i have a couple of 18lt stockpots that i got really cheap. May perform the same mod to the stockpots and have 1 system running from the same type of energy medium....We all have our own unique processes and this one for me, would be awesome!!

Cheers mate, i was just about to throw this buggered urn out!

Nath

 

[~MikE]

not sure i'd be using kettle elements for boiling the wort, i recall reading somewhere increased caramelisation happening with energy-dense elements.

 

[Nevalicious]

not sure i'd be using kettle elements for boiling the wort, i recall reading somewhere increased caramelisation happening with energy-dense elements.

Sounds feasible, but to be honest, i'm (me) never going to notice the difference in taste... Atleast not right at the moment anywho. A basic AG BIAB will prob taste better than kit or extract.

Caramelisation may not be a factor in darker beers yes?? Remember, I know nothing... h34r: Darker beers are more what will be made in my brewery anyway

Tyler