Is This My First Infection?

[Synthetase]

I thought I'd add this to the conversation:

As a general rule of thumb, spore-forming bacteria really aren't much of a problem in beer and wine making. These bacteria are ubiquitous in the environment - many of them are free-living soil organisms - and so their spores are already on your brewing equipment. Their spores are also very difficult to eradicate, the vast majority of chemical disinfectants (excluding a couple of real nasties like formaldehyde) wont kill them - including boiling water and extreme pH (acid or base). However, their growth is generally inhibited by the low pH and alcohol content of beer and they also have complex nutritional requirements not satisfied by wort; hence why we don't have Bacillus-filled beer all the time.

 

[fasty73]

It has been fermenting for 19 days, so as you can see, I am in no hurry. SG was 1006 on the 29/9/2010 and 1006 on 14/10/2010.

 

[pk.sax]

then you should really get into bulk priming and cut down on lolly costs and bottle this M* already. Worst thing that can happen is that it will give you much gas when you drink it (Please drink this one slowly for your own sake) and if that is happening everytime you drink it, it maybe is infected and you can tip the bottles onto the grass. If you really can't be arsed, bottle a few and tip the rest.

 

[Hatchy]

I can't believe a new thread here got to page 5 before I saw it. I've been working too hard.

My $0.02, don't ditch those fermenters. If you think they're suss then fill them with sod perc/pbw/napisan & stick some filthy bottles in there for a soak. Read how to brew, I got my paper copy from ebay for under $25. Get some no-rinse sanitiser, starsan is right up there as 1 of my brewing best buddies. NEVER tip a batch unless you are CERTAIN that it's infected. If you haven't hit yr fg then don't bottle, leave it. PET may be less likely to kill people but the amount of beer on the floor will be the same. Taste the beer, hydro readings won't taste like the finished product but after a while they'll give you an indication of where yr at. There's other things I thought of while reading this thread that I can't remember now but most importantly NEVER tip a batch unless you are CERTAIN that it's infected. I won't speak for anyone else but for me there's too much time, effort & love in my beer to tip it on the lawn. I don't care what my beer looks like in the fermenter unless I want to top crop. Leave the lid on, chill out & have a home brew. Without doing any research I find it unlikely that the AC is infecting the beer. If it is then yr airlocks aren't doing what they get paid for.

 

[BjornJ]

Hi Fasty,

just my 2c:

If you taste the beer and it doesn't taste "funny" as in sour, hints of vinegar or lemon juice or anything else that seems "strange", just bottle it and put it somewhere the bottles can't cause damage in case the beer turns out to continue fermenting longer than it should and increase the pressure in the bottles.
Then after some weeks try a beer. If it's ok, nothing to worry about.
If it's funny, just empty the bottles and leave them to soak overnight in Napisan and try again.
Both of those brews look like nothing I've seen before, so I would be sceptical.
But hey, what's the worst that can happen right? If you don't like it after they are carbed up, just ditch them.


I had an infection once, it tasted lemony, like there were lemon juice or something in the beer. Not horrible or undrinkable, but definitely something there to pick up on. Just got worse with time, ended up being told I had a Lacto bacillus infection.
I cleaned and Napisaned everything, and started taking my taps apart, something I hadn't done before.
I would only spray the tap with sanitiser after washing it with hot soapy water.
Now I take it apart every time.

Use a wooden spoon or something and put inside the tap, twist it half open. Holding the tap in your hand, hit it hard down on the kitchen bench top on the wooden spoon. After a couple of hits this separates the two plastic pieces of the tap, and in my case there was a bit of funny smell in there..


thanks
Bjorn

 

[tallie]

Thanks for the detailed info. I NEVER use a scourer, I only use a chux, which is put in the sterliser everytime I clean bottle (every 2 days). I have found my flaw I believe. I was only using bottle wash and NOT steriliser to clean my fermenters. I do take out the taps every time and clean them well. I only use my stirring spoon after it has been sterilised.

Have you been using the same bottle wash on your bottles, without any actual sanitiser? If so, keep in mind that some of your bottled beer may end up in the same state as that fermenter and be undrinkable at best and dangerously explosive at worst.

Cheers,
tallie

 

[fasty73]

I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?

 

[outbreak]

I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but with limited questions and using the info avaliable on this site, I have been able to progress from k&K to extract, to AG BIAB, with ease. I know forums are a place to have questions asked, but for f(*&ks sake these people are not here to hold your hand and wipe your ass. Make a decision and live with it, if you make the wrong one, well learn form it, its not going to make the sky fall down. I am sorry but it just shits me when people need someone to walk them through something every step of the way when they have the ability to research it themselves and the information is readily avaliable, its just plain lazy.

 

[fasty73]

Well I was hoping someone had seen this in their own brew and tell what happened to them. To quote a famous rapper "if you ain't got nothin nice to say then don't say nothin".

 

[milob40]

I have learnt a terrible mistake. I am only using brigalow bottle washing powder!! My bad I guees.

what can i say ........ starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan,
and throw out your brew spoon if it looks scratched, i found this to be the cause of my problems when first brewed years ago.

 

[yardy]

fasty,

i admire your enthusiasm for the craft but like a few others have advised you need to slow down a little and do some reading, some links.

http://www.homebrewdownunder.com/index.php?topic=132.0

http://www.homebrewdownunder.com/index.php?topic=133.0

cheers

 

[outbreak]

Well I was hoping someone had seen this in their own brew and tell what happened to them. To quote a famous rapper "if you ain't got nothin nice to say then don't say nothin".

People have commented on what is happening... read evaluate the comments and make a decision.

I will say something if its not nice if its deserved, mediocrity is terrible for all involved.

 

[fasty73]

OK, decision is made. I am going to bottle it (leave the last 3 litres or so in fermenter and tip out) in PETE bottles that I got tonight (68 bottles for $25) and give it a go. Thank you everyone for your help, I do appreciate all advice given. Will update when I drink it in about a month, I will bottle tonight as SG has fallen to 1004 from SG 1034. As someone said, I will drink it slow and just try one or 2 per night. Then if anyone ever has them happen, then they will know what to do. I did open the lid to check it tonight and it did smell a little like vinegar (bad I know) But hey, you don't know until you try it.

 

[Nevalicious]

I can't believe a new thread here got to page 5 before I saw it. I've been working too hard.

I know, what the...

It seems (and seriously nothing against Fasty's enthusiasm) that most of his topics go thus far very quickly??!!!!

I had an infection once, it tasted lemony, like there were lemon juice or something in the beer. Not horrible or undrinkable, but definitely something there to pick up on. Just got worse with time, ended up being told I had a Lacto bacillus infection.
I cleaned and Napisaned everything, and started taking my taps apart, something I hadn't done before.
I would only spray the tap with sanitiser after washing it with hot soapy water.
Now I take it apart every time.

Use a wooden spoon or something and put inside the tap, twist it half open. Holding the tap in your hand, hit it hard down on the kitchen bench top on the wooden spoon. After a couple of hits this separates the two plastic pieces of the tap, and in my case there was a bit of funny smell in there..


thanks
Bjorn

Solid, solid advice. I have had only two infections (gushers??!!) after 30 odd brews and they suck! I now follow this method religiously

I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?

Yes you do, on page 2, 3, 4 etc. Chuck it! Its a $12 brew. Sanitise better in the future as everyone has posted (starsa, iodo etc) and cut your losses.

Cheers

Tyler

 

[fasty73]

Yes Nev, I did get alot of answers but some were in contradiction to others.

 

[Nevalicious]

Yes Nev, I did get alot of answers but some were in contradiction to others.

Ok, I speak from experience then. I wouldn't bottle if suss on the plain fact that its a pain in the arse washing/sanitising all of those bottles just to find out in 1-2 months you're too scared to go near them for fear of receiving glass shards to the face. Infections chew through more of the remaining sugaz than normal yeast do, resulting in higher carbonation and potential bottle bombs.

Since you bottle in glass (as do I) this should be you're no. 1 concern. I caught my infected beers early in the piece and only had gushers... No bombs. I was lucky.

Only giving/recommending solid advice because I am a relative noob too. AG BIAB but still noob!

Brew on Fasty. Brew on :beerbang:

edit : speeeeeling

 

[hoohaaman]

Fasty,my 2c worth.Both brews seem infected imho I would save half a dozen bottles of each and taste at various intervals so you know how quickly they will deteriorate and/or turn into gushers.

Pellicles like you have are never good,unless of course you want one.Wasted far too much time pretending bad beers were drinkable when i should have tipped them.

Your time is better spent cleaning,cleaning cleaning every part of your brewery,because once an infection takes hold it is frustrating and hard to track down and eradicate.

 

[beerbog]

Thank f&^k that's over. :beerbang:

 

[fasty73]

NOW we are on the right track guys. Nevalicous, I got 68 PETE bottles, so bottle bombs are less of a problem with this batch, BUT taking the last 2 bits of advice, I am only going to bottle 6 PETE bottles and tip the rest out (will be major pissed if it turns out nice) but these are the chances we take and learning from them is only a good thing. An old fella at work got me onto what I was doing wrong, I was only using bottle washing powder (alkaline salts) to wash everything, now I have metabisulphite. I think I may have a couple more batches go bad before I have cleaned the fermenters with metabisulphite instead of bottle washing detergent!!!

 

[Nevalicious]

NOW we are on the right track guys. Nevalicous, I got 68 PETE bottles, so bottle bombs are less of a problem with this batch, BUT taking the last 2 bits of advice, I am only going to bottle 6 PETE bottles and tip the rest out (will be major pissed if it turns out nice) but these are the chances we take and learning from them is only a good thing. An old fella at work got me onto what I was doing wrong, I was only using bottle washing powder (alkaline salts) to wash everything, now I have metabisulphite. I think I may have a couple more batches go bad before I have cleaned the fermenters with metabisulphite instead of bottle washing detergent!!!

Cool, but you ask us for help right... You take on board the best advice... Sanitation... Then choose to ignore previous posts of STARSAN STARSAN STARSAN, IODOPHER and go with the Sodium Met. Seriously???