Instruction Needed

[jurule]

Hi,

I have been playing around with basic kits and i have been doing lots of reading on here about using the kits but using LME instead of dextrose and adding some grains and hops etc to the boil and then during fermentation and other tweaks.

I am just after some more specific instruction in terms of steps because obviously the kits have only the basics.

I would like to try doing a similar beer to Boddingtons Pub Ale or a Kilkenny/Caffreys. I couldnt find many kit recipes on here that my limited intelligence could understand.

So any links or anything would be appreciated!! Thanks!!

 

[raven19]

after some more specific instruction in terms of steps because obviously the kits have only the basics.

If keen to take the next step, I would suggest grabbing a partial kit from your LHBS.

That will contain the instructions, and give you a chance to steep some grains, boil hops, etc.

A great way to take that next step IMO.

Can't recommend anything from scratch as such, but if you have a left over tin or two, update this post and I am sure we (probably Butters! ) will be able to help turn a tin into a masterpiece!

Cheers!

 

[jurule]

Thanks for the tip mate. Unfortunetely the LHBS guys usually just sell ya the bits and aren't too keen on getting too technical or offering much advice. Just wanna sell ya the shit and be done with it.

 

[Gavo]

Ah the next steps from a straight tin. The possibilities and flavors to be had. The confusion along the journey.
Not an lot to it really and IMHO don't get too hung up on all of the technical terms terms and science....yet.

Adding Grain:
A simple way to add grain is to steep some specialty grains. Check Craftbrewer website above as Ross has a great description and range of grains and what can be steeped and what needs to be mashed. Go for the specialty grains that need only be steeped for the moment. Buy your grain cracked, unless you have a grain mill. Steeping grain is simple. For example if you want to steep 500 grams of grain, heat about two litres of water to between 60 and 70 degrees C and soak your grain in the water for 30 min. Strain the liquid through a strainer and rinse with another 2-3 litres of hot (not boiling) water around the same temp. You will then need to boil the resultant liquid for about 15 min to kill off any bacteria. Add your malt extract (dry or liquid at the end of the boil).

Using Malt instead of dextrose or sugar will require hop additions to balance out the extra sweetness of the malt. Butters will advocate for the all malt beer. So will I.

Hops:
Add your hop additions to the boiling liquid (the amount of hops and the time for boiling will depend on the bitterness and flavour required) if the addition is a 15 min addition this means add the hops 15 min before the end of the boil. A flame out or 0 minute addition mans add the hops when you turn the heat off. Leave the liquid to cool (with the lid on for around 20- 30 min) Putting it in a ice bath will help cool it.

Strain the liquid into your fermenter and add the rest of your fermentables. Top up the fermenter with cold water as usual.

There are a number of ways you can go about this. This is just one.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Bloody nora, dobbed in for it again....
Ok, first step is that you won't get a beer that tastes like Bod or caffreys, not with kits. You'll get close-ish, but it will be different. Unrealised expectations are what makes otherwise good beer taste bad, if you know what I mean. So get used to the concept of 'beer in the style of....', instead of clones (whilst working with kits). Unless you're after american rubbish beer, cos then if you jam enough hops in there, it all tastes the same anyway. h34r:

OK, Boddingtons, apart from being from the wrong side of the country, is a low alcohol, mildly flavoured beer. It doesn't taste of much of much, to be honest...and that actually makes it a wee bit hard to try to emulate with Australian purchased kits, which are invariably over-hopped. Best bet if you like Bod is to get hold of a Muntons Yorkshire Bitter kit. Get 1kg of ldm, add 300g to 3L of water. Add some East Kent Goldings hops (either 15g loose, or one of those teabags which I think is 12g, but they are more expensive long term), and boil gently for 10-15 minutes. Add to the fermenter with the tin, the other 700g of ldm, and top up to 23L. Use Danstar Nottingham yeast adn ferment at 20C. Or, if you'd rather, use a good english liquid yeast, like 1469 West Yorkshire :icon_drool2: . Done.

If you want a bit more grain flavour (which will give it more taste than Boddingtons ever had), steep 150-200 grams of light or medium crystal, and about 50g of chocolate malt in 2L of water at around 70C for 30 minutes. Strain the liquid, discard the grain, and use this liquid (made back up to 3L) to do your boil with the 300g of malt and the hops. Perfic. A good Northern Bitter should, in my opinion, be sweet on the front end, with bitterness coming in at mid palate, then cleansed with a finishing dry note. The flavours should be balanced throughout, with no aggressive bitter notes. Lets face it, is Boddingtons Bitter actually bitter? No, not really.

Lots of info on this forum for you, and lots of relocated poms (and others) with a passion for English (or Irish) beer to help you out.

 

[Gavo]

american rubbish beer, cos then if you jam enough hops in there, it all tastes the same anyway. h34r:

Wash your mouth out Butters. ( With that American beer you made) And get brewing another one so you can appreciate both styles. :lol:

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Wash your mouth out Butters. ( With that American beer you made) And get brewing another one so you can appreciate both styles. :lol:

Cheers
Gavo.

Double batch done on Australia day, as it happens....but this one had the Bramling Cross in it as well, so I consider it to be 'trans-atlantic' :lol: Haven't pitched mine yet, so might play my low D to it at night, and hope some Irish-ness rubs off on it.

 

[ford-ute]

butters is right you will not be able to clone with a kit but you will be able to get in to that style if your new to home brew you will find that you will be able to make beer so much better that boddingtons ( and im not bagging this beer i dont mind it) as you get further along you home brew journey you palet will develope in way you will not imagine my favorite commecial beer is a pommy beer samule smiths and sons oatmeal stout i have tried to get near it and have made some very fine beer in the prosses so now i have stopped trying and just go where my head and taste buds take me

I would join the coopers home brew club there members secting has some mighty fine recipes for beers in it for some one that is just starting to boil in some hops and add alittle bit of extra malt they are all tried and true recipes and it will give you the experience to help you figure out what works plus you get a phone number and you can call the guys there and ask them for help. if your like me you will probaly progress on from there pretty quickly i was only a member for a year but its a good place to start

 

[jurule]

Thanks a lot people, have a bit more of an idea now. WIll try that recipe you mentioned Butters. See how that goes.

Where else can i find some more kit recipes like the one you just described? Thing is i dont wanna be blindly adding wrong grains or hops to the wrong kit etc etc. Thats where i wont have a clue about what goes with what...

 

[cdbrown]

You could always post up what kits you actually have to work with and someone here will be able to give advice on what would work with that kit. Or search other threads which have the kit as the base and see what they are doing. That's how I got going and been working well.

So butters - where's the recipe for "in the style of" kilkenny?? Need to get ready and brew up a batch or two of this stuff for St Pat's day.

 

[buttersd70]

cd
I haven't tried a kilkenny, and don't have a kit version....but here is an extract one off the old grumpys site (I haven't tried it, though, so can't vouch for it). You could probably modify it for use with a kit if you know the IBU of it, but given that you'd need to be doing a boil anyway, may as well go with the full extract version.....

One thing I would suggest is to boil only part of the fermentables and calculate the hopping rates for the bittering addition properly, based on the known alpha. But this should give you a starting point.
View attachment 24349

 

[caleb]

Shame to hear about your LHBS... I mean, aren't they brewer's themselves? Where's the passion, the interest?

I usually go to the Country Brewer here in Sydney (because it's the closest) and they are always great - take the time to talk with everyone and give good advice, even when I go on and on. Plus they have sheets of recipes for kit & bits you can take, to help beginners make a good beer in the style they want from day one. Plus all their "bits" have basic instructions so at least you have some idea. They even have "wet-pak" kits which are basically extract brews to help you make the jump into extract and even AG brewing.


Anyway, improving kits is pretty simple and consists of four main things:

1. Replacing some or all of the sugar or dextrose with malt.
You can use dry or liquid malt. In addition to making a maltier brew, you can modify taste and color with different types of malt. For example, add a 1.5kg amber liquid malt to a basic Ale or English Bitter kit to make a malty amber ale ala James Squire AA. Or use a dark malt instead and turn your basic kit into more of stout or porter. Try a 50/50 dextrose/light dry malt blend for an improved Aussie style lager, or go a full 1kg light dry malt for a German style all malt lager. Or use between 1-1.5 kg liquid malt instead.

2. Steeping some specialty grains and adding to the mix.
You can use some grains to add extra flavor to a brew, or to alter the color. Between 50-500 grams can be used as a rule of thumb. This adds a fresh malt flavor and different taste to the basic malt profile used in the kit. For example, crystal malt adds a sweet flavor and red color, choc malt adds a dark color and roasty chocolately taste, munich is pale but adds a sweet biscuity taste. Start with around 150g to begin with - you just steep it in a pot with a few litres of hot water for 20 or 30 minutes before straining into the brew. (although as Gavo has mentioned, it is a good idea to boil the resulting liquid (not the grain itself) for a while to kill any bugs)

3. Using some extra hops for flavor and aroma
Extra hops can be used to add hops flavors and aromas to basic kits, or even increase the bitterness. To get extra bitterness you have to boil hops for at least 30 minutes (usually 60). However, late additions for flavor or aroma are quite easy. Basically, make a pot of tea using hops pellets or flowers and add it to the fermenter. If you use a sterile vessel and pour boiling water into it, you can just strain the resulting hop tea into the fermenter. Alternatively, you can just put the hops straight into the fermenter and leave them in - called "dry hopping".
Start with between 10 and 30 grams of hops. The range of extra flavors you can get with hops is quite amazing - from spicy Saaz and Goldings, the citrus and passionfruit of Cascade or Simcoe, to Nelson Sauvin which actually tastes like grapes or white wine.

4. Specialty Yeasts
Most home brewers know the difference between lager and ale yeasts. However, there are countless strains of yeast which all have different effects on your brew, and work at different temperatures. Wyeast, for example, has around 50 different types of yeasts. Most people start with one of the dried Saf yeasts which are easily available and give good results.
People usually choose a particular yeast to either get a "cleaner" brew with a more neutral yeast, or one that clears well with good floculation, or conversely to get a yeast which generates more flavors and complexity, for example when making a Belgian ale.

You don't have to do all four steps to every kit you make. Do any combination you like. However, these four are the main ways you can modify your "kit + kilo" brew into something unique and special. I'd recommend trying the first three items first, and once you understand the effect adding hops and grain has, you may be ready to move onto more exotic yeasts than the basic one under the lid of the kit can.

 

[jurule]

Thanks a lot Caleb im now starting to understand how to go about it now. Its all coming together quite nicely. Very helpful website, thanks!

 

[zabond]

My first go at grain addition-Killkenny/Beamish Irish red sorta 1 can Tooheys special draught[will use Coopers next time],250gr Crystal malt steeped for 30min@70*,1kg Coopers brew enhancer #2,250gr Golden syrup,1 teabag Goldings hops added to crystal malt juice[after 15min boil]for 20min English ale yeast pitched @ 26*fermented for 12 days @ 18*dropped temp to 4* racked to secondary added geletine sat 2 days @ 4* kegged and drinking not too shabby,bit light on head retention & seems to have a slight peppery feel in the mouth[could be just me]or the Tooheys but quite happy with my first go at adding extras OG 1.46 FG 1.018 ALC4.2%
Russ
shouda read Caleb's post properly "Goldings=spicy!!! explains the peppery taste

 

[buttersd70]

My first go at grain addition-Killkenny/Beamish Irish red sorta 1 can Tooheys special draught[will use Coopers next time],250gr Crystal malt steeped for 30min@70*,1kg Coopers brew enhancer #2,250gr Golden syrup,1 teabag Goldings hops added to crystal malt juice[after 15min boil]for 20min English ale yeast pitched @ 26*fermented for 12 days @ 18*dropped temp to 4* racked to secondary added geletine sat 2 days @ 4* kegged and drinking not too shabby,bit light on head retention & seems to have a slight peppery feel in the mouth[could be just me]or the Tooheys but quite happy with my first go at adding extras OG 1.46 FG 1.018 ALC4.2%
Russ
shouda read Caleb's post properly "Goldings=spicy!!! explains the peppery taste

Russ...to help out with the head retention, you could add 100g wheat malt extract. Or swap out the BE2. BE2 is 250g ldm, 250g maltodextrin and 500g dex. Swap out the matodextrin portion with wheat malt, which is higher in protein. Another thing that would help with head retention for this style is to ensure it's not over carbed, or over chilled. High carb will de stabalise the head (which sounds wierd, but it's true. Think of an english pint. SFA carb, but a solid stable head.), and if its too cold, not enough co2 will break from solution to form, or replenish, a good head.

 

[cdbrown]

thanks for the Kilkenny clone from Grumpys. If someone new to this game were to read the instructions the results wouldn't be too good as there's no mention of steeping the 0.5kg dark crystal malt. Mentions throwing all the fermentables into a pot and bringing it to the boil.

So for something like a kilkenny

0.5kg Dark crystal malt steeped in 2L water at 70C for 30mins
0.25kg LDME
2x1.5kg tins of LME (I have pale and amber but might just pick up a couple light LME)
20g Northern Brewer and 20g Challenger @ 30mins to give 30IBU
12g Fuggles @ 15
12g EK Goldings @ 5
23L
total IBU is 38
Sounds like a nice extract brew.

Found an example in beersmith which is nearly the same
1.2kg Extra LDME
1.8kg Pale LME
0.5kg Dark crystal malt
50g Challenger (15mins)
31g Northern Brewer (15mins)
27g EKG (5mins)
21g Fuggles (5mins)
WY1084
19L batch

Looks like I'm going to have to add challenger, northern brewer and WY1084 to the next order

 

[zabond]

thanks Butters dont think its over carbed but i,ll give the keg a shake or 2 and release the pressure but I have my keg freezer set at 3*[I like my beer COLD]so if its temp prob I'll put up with a poor head
Russ

 

[buttersd70]

If someone new to this game were to read the instructions the results wouldn't be too good as there's no mention of steeping the 0.5kg dark crystal malt. Mentions throwing all the fermentables into a pot and bringing it to the boil.

Never thought of that . Must admit that I only glanced at the recipe...I got it just before I went AG, adn never got around to doing it. Personally I'd be recucing the bittering addition to give 30IBU overall....but that's personal preference more than anything.

Personally I'd go with the light/amber in combo, myself...it would be a fair bit darker than kilkenny, but I like 'em like that....when I did extracts, I would use light/amber in combo more often than not. Best of both worlds.

 

[ianh]

Personally I'd be reducing the bittering addition to give 30IBU overall....but that's personal preference more than anything.

Just wondering if 30IBU is still too high. I assume Kilkenny comes under Irish Red Ale in the BJCP beer styles with a suggested range of bitterness of 17-28 IBU. About 25IBU would bring it back into balance.

Just my thoughts

Ian

 

[cdbrown]

According to wikipedia Kilkenny is 29 IBU, alc 4.3%
Another site has 25EBU, 27EBC, alc 4.3%