Instantaneous Gas Hot Water

[PistolPatch]

Not sure why I didn't think of this before as it's pretty obvious :huh:

Have always had an aversion to using hot water from the tap for mash/sparge water but those of us who have instantaneous hot water heaters should have no worries using the hot water from these. Unless you pre-filter* your mash/sparge water, I can only see two big advantages...

1. Save Time: My hot water comes out of the tap at strike temperature so I can mash in almost immediately.
2. Save Money on Bottled Gas: Gas from the mains costs pretty much nothing. Also should reduce those mid-brew trips to the servo a little.

Definitely going to do this on my next brew.

Spot,
Pat

* I think I saw that ThirstyBoy wrote somewhere that some filters can even handle the hot water???

 

[oldbugman]

a wort maker I know uses this kinda of set up. punchs in the temps and out it comes.

he sends the cold water through sediment filters and carbon filter prior to it going into the heater.

 

[sah]

I think the law in NSW limits household hot water to 55C. The max I can get out of my instantaneous system is 50C. Still it saves time heating on the burner and is more efficient.

Scott

 

[andreic]

Have always had an aversion to using hot water from the tap for mash/sparge water

why? I'm sure its better to filter water etc... but what is the risk from using hot water from the tap? It gets boiled for 60+ minutes afterwards...

I used to fit my HLT from the hot tap when I had an instantaneous hot water system. Since moving house I've been doing the same thing even though its now a gas hot water tank. Saves on gas and time. I may have to change my current brewing practices depending on follow up posts I don't filter my water at this stage, but maybe that should also change...

 

[matti]

I don't want rain on your parade PP
Personally I think it is a great idea.
I am going to read up about hot side aeration in mashing before I follow your lead though.
Now ,,,where was that thread....
Cheers for the ups though!
Matti

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think the law in NSW limits household hot water to 55C. The max I can get out of my instantaneous system is 50C. Still it saves time heating on the burner and is more efficient.

Scott

No not all are limited, only those conencted to the household plumbing to supply water for sinks,baths,showers etc

You would need the good old fashioned ZIP heater. These get used widely in mealrooms to rep[lace kettles for boiling water for your morning coffee or tes

 

[matti]

how'd you adjust the ph on brew liqour then....?
acidualte grains and roasted barleys? yeah man
Linky on HSAJust a short note , Matt Finnish

 

[matti]

according to Stu's linky on HSA we shouldn't be worried about HSA in mash hehehe
Fill the mash tum up from an oxygenated hot water system as much as you wish.
It'd take 6 months at least b4 you tasted it.

 

[PistolPatch]

...what is the risk from using hot water from the tap? It gets boiled for 60+ minutes afterwards...

Andreic: The risk is contamination from metals in the hot water tank. I'm not sure if it's just the copper or something else as well. Some systems are definitely worse than others.

Matti: Yep there would be definitley no HSA problemo. (Couldn't see Stu's link?) As for pH, you'll have to wait for pH testing Part 2 which I'll write sonn and from which I can guarantee no one will learn anything - lol. Seriously though, can't see a pH problem at all though some people might have to change their procedure a bit. Hey mate, what's this oxygenated hot water business?

I'm not too worried about pre-filtering though it's nice to see that it can be done. Cheers OldBug!

Spot!

 

[MHB]

Mains water is aerated, when you heat it the air is still in the water, tho I suspect that it comes out of solution pretty fast once the water leaves the tap and is no longer under pressure.
I wouldnt be too worried about the O2 levels.

The tempering valves are a fairly recent innovation well a decade or so, lots of older instantaneous systems will put out water up to 80C - you can still buy industrial instantaneous systems that will go up to something like 90C.

The mineral content in HW tanks comes from the sacrifice anode, its there to corrode instead of the tank - it's usually made of magnesium, zinc, aluminium or an alloy of same.

Just the ex-plumber coming out, I think a well selected instantaneous HWS could be a real boon in a brewery (home or otherwise) and am surprised that there arent more of them in use.

MHB

 

[bugwan]

FWIW, I've always used hot water from the continuous hot water system at home. Bringing 30L up to mash in temps only takes a few minutes then. My vision's still ok...

Since I will be brewing earlier in the mornings soon, I will just have the HLT come on via a timer, which should be good for mash in after the first coffee...

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I think the law in NSW limits household hot water to 55C. The max I can get out of my instantaneous system is 50C. Still it saves time heating on the burner and is more efficient.

Scott

Some smarter breweries are going green, mostly out side Aussie, using the solar energy to heat water and to use uv to sterilize ( Carbon credits are a real bargaining tool now) etc.There is no limits on how much heat you can use from the sun its a matter of setting up the system to cope.I think the main thing as a hommie is to filter before heating and keep it stored under the right conditions.I am hoping and investigating how to run my power needs from my solar array for my system.Its a new idea for me and will take time to get right but in the big picture this is what will happen.
GB

 

[domonsura]

I've done a few experiments trying to come up with an instant gas hot water heater for just this purpose, I got good results but they had to be put aside because of a lack of time.
If you could find the right water heater, in my opinion it would be a brilliant addition to a brewery.

 

[PistolPatch]

The mineral content in HW tanks comes from the sacrifice anode, its there to corrode instead of the tank - it's usually made of magnesium, zinc, aluminium or an alloy of same.

There you go andreic! That's the reason why a lot of hot water tastes a bit funny and is a bit of a no no for brewing though it's good to hear that bugwan's vision is still ok :blink: Good on you MHB (and thanks for the mains explanation too.)

 

[MHB]

This might save you some digging:-
I did a fair bit of research and thought this one was the best Rinnai HB 250 - max output 95C, units can be manifolded together to give what ever flow rate you need - the electronic ignition and the high energy star rating made it the winner, when I compared all the units on the market.

The real saving was when you start feeding warm water back through the heater - the one thing every brewery makes too much of is warm water.

MHB

 

[matti]

This might save you some digging:-
I did a fair bit of research and thought this one was the best Rinnai HB 250 - max output 95C, units can be manifolded together to give what ever flow rate you need - the electronic ignition and the high energy star rating made it the winner, when I compared all the units on the market.

The real saving was when you start feeding warm water back through the heater - the one thing every brewery makes too much of is warm water.

woohoo..
I've got a Rinnai instantanious Hot water system.

Now I just got to plum a tap to the garage or put a hose through kitchen window.

What kind of hosing do I need to handle 80 degree water?
I will need to heat the water a bit higher so I have time to acidify my sparge liquid hehehe

You guys are too good PP and MHB
Better log of b4 SHMBO finds out LOL

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Ebay makes interesting reading... even if you dont have instant hot water on your mains. You could run through a filter into one of these different items and while you might not get all teh way to strike temp, you will save some time.

Banked units would work right up to strike temp. My Instant hot water would get up to strike, but I'd have to carry the hot water down the stairs to the brewrey and I wouldn't be able to filter it... would I?? can you run hot water through a carbon filter?? Would it kill it?

Linkys to

A bolt on electric instant water heater -

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HAKL-Water-heater-I...1QQcmdZViewItem

A bolt on LPG instant water heater - Get you one of those BIG Lpg bottles and it will be cheap as chips plus fast!!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Instant-LPG-Hot-Wat...1QQcmdZViewItem

Thirsty

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

The real saving was when you start feeding warm water back through the heater - the one thing every brewery makes too much of is warm water.

MHB

MHB You nailed it right there.But unfortuntley as a hommie we dont have the systems to take advantage of the energy we are wasting.Or do we? I will be going solar for my power soon, to a degree and if there is any other ideas which will work I think this should be put up .Forward thinking on energy will make a big difference to costs.I know from experience there are a lot of people on the forum from different technology backgrounds who can help here.
GB

 

[PistolPatch]

What kind of hosing do I need to handle 80 degree water?

Matti, I use the blue drinking water hose that you can get from a hardware - preferably not Bunnings I have used this on the outlet of my chiller and it has handled the hot water for, I think, about 12 months perfectly - no sign of wear. To feed into my kettle (or HLT for the traditional brewers) I use a double outlet on my cold water washing machine tap. Looks like I'll need another one now for my hot water!

Great to see so many of you retailers interested in and addressing the water side of things. Surely the more thought we put into how we use our water will end up with us actually saving time in cleaning? Spent pretty much all day cleaning today - agh! Wish I lived in a house instead of a unit :angry:

Good on ya guys!
Pat

Nice links ThirstyBoy!

 

[Whistlingjack]

There you go andreic! That's the reason why a lot of hot water tastes a bit funny and is a bit of a no no for brewing though it's good to hear that bugwan's vision is still ok :blink: Good on you MHB (and thanks for the mains explanation too.)

Zinc and magnesium are desirable trace elements for yeast metabolism not always present in suitable levels in brew water.

Breweries sometimes add these for this purpose.

WJ