Ill-gotten keg fiends

[GrumpyPaul]

Yeah. And if you ever leave your car unlocked in the street you deserve for people to steal your stuff from inside it.

So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?

I came into possession of a Matso's keg. Spoke to them on Facebook, they asked for address so someone could come pick it up. I dropped it off to a local bar instead. A carton got delivered to my door.

I don't think one story is justification for people not really caring. Especially the micros.

Ohhhh WIlburrrr.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

I don't understand the post? It came as part of a kegerator and I went out of my way to return it. If that's what you're getting at.

 

[Tahoose]

Suppose It's a bit hard to demand a deposit on your kegs when your the micro brewery and your the one trying to get your beer on tap.

I think most of the responsibility here goes to the publican.

On the flip side of the coin this has opened up the market for companies like kegstar, they lease the kegs to the brewery and then using a barcode tagging system they track the movements of the kegs. Then re-supply you with kegs when you need them.

(That's my understanding anyway)

I know Mornington Brewery are using them.

 

[manticle]

@wilbur: If you read what I've written you would remove the notion of blame. I've made that abundantly clear.
Now we are on the same page, I am suggesting that in practical terms, the system that allows piles of product to sit unfettered and unguarded in the middle of the street is problematic and closely linked with bulk product going missing. Be smart, lock your **** up.

Blame is not relevant (except when placed at the thief's/thieves' door but if you want to live in a world where thieves don't exist, I know where you can get prescription drugs at low cost).

I didn't say anything about being easier either. I initially said 'it might help'. If I need to extrapolate from that I would say it might help prevent thievery/retain product if large amounts of said product were not left for hours, unguarded, in public spaces.
Remember we are not talking about one or two going missing - we are talking multiples turning up in warehouses for on sale at profit. Black market thievery. Why wouldn't you secure your product?

 

[MastersBrewery]

manticle,
to some degree I disagree, if i served you a beer in a Chrystal glass I'd expect the glass returned and to some degree you to take care with my glass wear. If you go to a pub and order a beer the publican won't agree with you smashing or taking home every other glass home. The vessels containing the product are not are not included in the contract of purchase (ie you are not purchasing the vessel ), in a Pub if the vessel is some how damaged your purchase is replaced. I even before I was brewing and while I was working in the industry found it quite alarming that businesses would place their suppliers assets on the street. Yes it's an issue but it is only something that the majors can start sorting out and create a new 'norm' in the pick up and delivery of kegs. The Pubs and clubs will follow what ever stipulations are laid down as we do for our local garbage pick up. As was said at the start of this thread it's the little guys that wear this sort of thing as a cost that really impacts their bottom line ,,,,, and therefore price at the tap .... I'm sure there's not a brewer here that dosen't want True South to have their 100 kegs back or Holgate or Stone and Wood etc, it may mean your pint next year isn't that 10c more and the year after and so on.

It's an industry problem that has been around for years, I think we all agree it needs fixing, one pub/club, or brewery isn't going to solve the problem, it needs to be industry wide and for the sake of a pint I hope it happens soon.

MB

ED: A further thought came to mind : In most states it is illegal to leave goods unsecured, hence the reason you may find breweries reluctant to approach authorities.

 

[stakka82]

So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?

Yeah.

 

[manticle]

I said the system needs fixing, not that the responsibility lies with the brewery.

Why on earth does anyone think it's a good idea for valuable product to lie around, in bulk, accessible for hours at all hours?
It's hardly heretical, illogical or blame the victim mentality to suggest working out a system where securing a product and encouraging clients to do likewise is a good way to stop theft.
I'm surprised this concept is hard to grasp.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

Read the post above yours. That's why it's hard to gasp and easy to assume.

 

[manticle]

You mean the post that says 'yeah' or the one from masters brewery I was responding to?

I'm pretty sure my point is fairly well explained so I will avoid doing the disservice of belabouring the same point again. By all means leave large numbers of valuable things in public and be surprised when some prick steals and sells them. Moral and ethical culpability are as practically relevant as the diameter of my cat's sphincter.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

The one word answer clearly showing that some people do (and I've encountered it many times from people who start a discussion like yours and move quickly to placing all blame on the pubs) have a blame the victim mentality.

Actually, I've witnessed it far too often from examples like the one I cited through to women being to blame for being sexually assaulted because they were wearing revealing clothing. It's ********. It's usually uneducated, white trash that have never been victimized and believe that's proof of causation that what they do is right.

 

[manticle]

And far from my point. So if discussing with me, discuss the point I'm making, not the point someone else might be making. Also don't even imply that your willingness to misinterpret my point has anything in the world to do with my perspective on victims of sexual assault. Overreaching and massively offensive.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

That point wasn't directed at you at all. I would've thought that was obvious seeing as you said I wouldn't be to blame for my wallet being stolen in the example I used. I apologise, honestly not intended like that.

There's no willingness to misinterpret either. Let me break down your argument the way I'm reading it.

Less items would go missing if they weren't easily accessible.
You shouldn't be surprised when they do.
Pubs aren't to blame.

Now, I have to draw my own conclusions at some point and I can't because the way I'm seeing it, and I'll be corrected and leave the matter entirely after you reply whether I'm still confused or not, those three points don't add up.

If you shouldn't be surprised that valuable items you leave out go missing, then you would be aware that there is a high chance it's going to happen. If pubs are leaving the items out knowing there's a high chance they're going to go missing, then I don't see how they're not to blame?

 

[manticle]

Blame meaning morally culpable. Thief is morally culpable. Doesn't mean owner of gear can't be smart or practical. I lock my front door at night. If I forget one day and get murdered, I don't expect to be blamed. Locking my door still might have been helpful. Don't make it black/white /dogmatic. I've never been that guy, never thought you were either

 

[manticle]

And your point was directed at me as you referred to my original post (since openly explained) about stolen kegs and suggested that points like mine (despite my specific assertation to the contrary) were on a par with blame the victim menatality. You were the one to bring in the parallel to sexual assault victims and not only is that a far cry from what I wrote, what I subsequently explained or what I meant, but it is such a far cry from my experience that any implication should be utterly and totally withdrawn.
Lock up your bike when going to the library was my advice, not imprison yourself in a niquab or face rape as a consequence.

 

[pk.sax]

You blokes must have really dry taps...

 

[Mardoo]

Isn't it weird that so many pubs don't have a dedicated storage area for one of the primary tools of their trade? It makes little sense that the brewer has to bear the sole cost of the loss of a tool that is essential to both the brewer and the pub.

From the sounds of the podcasts I've heard from the US the keg exchange system is broken there too, at least for craft brewers. An even-split deposit system where the pub and brewer each hold half responsibility for the kegs seems most fair. Bet those kegs wouldn't be long on the street then!

 

[TheWiggman]

I've been drunk before and one thing I've learnt from that is that other drunks see anything not bolted down as free game. I'd wager most of these kegs go missing whilst inebriated patrons are walking out of the said venues. Putting them in a cage of running a locked chain through the handles would go a long way.

I also learnt that trees look like a climbing aparatus.

 

[Rambo]

If the pub owners lost money every time one was stolen, I'm sure they would soon invest in a length of chain and a padlock. They lock up their chairs and tables from any outside seating areas, why not their kegs?. And given that most pubs are owned by the same people who own Bunnings and Masters, I'm sure they could get a discount.

 

[fraser_john]

This is for all intents and purposes the exact same problem Brambles had with their pallets always being nicked, but kegs are far more valuable.

Probably a good third party business in there for RFID keg tags, keg deposits for publicans and a pickup return service.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The onus would lie with both parties, BOC makes the hirer of the gas bottles responsible for any lost bottles, another solution would be when the brewery rep calls out to visit the publican question one should be where will you be storing the empty kegs securely,
no secure storage, no business transacted.