Ill-gotten keg fiends

[manticle]

And far from my point. So if discussing with me, discuss the point I'm making, not the point someone else might be making. Also don't even imply that your willingness to misinterpret my point has anything in the world to do with my perspective on victims of sexual assault. Overreaching and massively offensive.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

That point wasn't directed at you at all. I would've thought that was obvious seeing as you said I wouldn't be to blame for my wallet being stolen in the example I used. I apologise, honestly not intended like that.

There's no willingness to misinterpret either. Let me break down your argument the way I'm reading it.

Less items would go missing if they weren't easily accessible.
You shouldn't be surprised when they do.
Pubs aren't to blame.

Now, I have to draw my own conclusions at some point and I can't because the way I'm seeing it, and I'll be corrected and leave the matter entirely after you reply whether I'm still confused or not, those three points don't add up.

If you shouldn't be surprised that valuable items you leave out go missing, then you would be aware that there is a high chance it's going to happen. If pubs are leaving the items out knowing there's a high chance they're going to go missing, then I don't see how they're not to blame?

 

[manticle]

Blame meaning morally culpable. Thief is morally culpable. Doesn't mean owner of gear can't be smart or practical. I lock my front door at night. If I forget one day and get murdered, I don't expect to be blamed. Locking my door still might have been helpful. Don't make it black/white /dogmatic. I've never been that guy, never thought you were either

 

[manticle]

And your point was directed at me as you referred to my original post (since openly explained) about stolen kegs and suggested that points like mine (despite my specific assertation to the contrary) were on a par with blame the victim menatality. You were the one to bring in the parallel to sexual assault victims and not only is that a far cry from what I wrote, what I subsequently explained or what I meant, but it is such a far cry from my experience that any implication should be utterly and totally withdrawn.
Lock up your bike when going to the library was my advice, not imprison yourself in a niquab or face rape as a consequence.

 

[pk.sax]

You blokes must have really dry taps...

 

[Mardoo]

Isn't it weird that so many pubs don't have a dedicated storage area for one of the primary tools of their trade? It makes little sense that the brewer has to bear the sole cost of the loss of a tool that is essential to both the brewer and the pub.

From the sounds of the podcasts I've heard from the US the keg exchange system is broken there too, at least for craft brewers. An even-split deposit system where the pub and brewer each hold half responsibility for the kegs seems most fair. Bet those kegs wouldn't be long on the street then!

 

[TheWiggman]

I've been drunk before and one thing I've learnt from that is that other drunks see anything not bolted down as free game. I'd wager most of these kegs go missing whilst inebriated patrons are walking out of the said venues. Putting them in a cage of running a locked chain through the handles would go a long way.

I also learnt that trees look like a climbing aparatus.

 

[Rambo]

If the pub owners lost money every time one was stolen, I'm sure they would soon invest in a length of chain and a padlock. They lock up their chairs and tables from any outside seating areas, why not their kegs?. And given that most pubs are owned by the same people who own Bunnings and Masters, I'm sure they could get a discount.

 

[fraser_john]

This is for all intents and purposes the exact same problem Brambles had with their pallets always being nicked, but kegs are far more valuable.

Probably a good third party business in there for RFID keg tags, keg deposits for publicans and a pickup return service.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The onus would lie with both parties, BOC makes the hirer of the gas bottles responsible for any lost bottles, another solution would be when the brewery rep calls out to visit the publican question one should be where will you be storing the empty kegs securely,
no secure storage, no business transacted.

 

[Flash_DG]

The onus would lie with both parties, BOC makes the hirer of the gas bottles responsible for any lost bottles, another solution would be when the brewery rep calls out to visit the publican question one should be where will you be storing the empty kegs securely,
no secure storage, no business transacted.

Unfortunately Micros would never get their kegs out like that.

 

[Mardoo]

In terms of the argument over responsibility earlier in the thread, one of the caveats of this situation is that the pubs are in care of property they don't own. Nor does the brewery necessarily know the publican. It's like loaning your tools to someone you've never met and assuming they'll take care of them, when quite often they're just leaving them on the street.

Basically the system of responsibility for kegs is broken. Or rather, was **** in the first place.

Edit: spelling

 

[StalkingWilbur]

And your point was directed at me as you referred to my original post (since openly explained) about stolen kegs and suggested that points like mine (despite my specific assertation to the contrary) were on a par with blame the victim menatality.

I said I would leave the matter entirely, but seeing as you're doing exactly what you're blaming me for and drawing a conclusion despite me writing to contrary, I'm going to try to clarify that specific point once more as its not sitting well with me.

I clearly exempted you from that example by both a paragraph break, a reference to the poster who was blatantly supporting a blame the victim mentality and in my subsequent post where I said I thought that would be obvious because you didn't blame the victim in the example of the wallet I used. It was more a justification of why I would enter the discussion in the first place and then that poster with that mentality came along and proved exactly what I was talking about. I had my house broken into two weeks ago through an upstairs bathroom window I left open and that ******** mentality suggests it's my fault.

It wasn't a comment on you, or even him. It was making a point about a culture that finds it acceptable to place blame on the person who has done nothing wrong, for something wrong that happens to them. Only a true ******* would agree with the assault example I used, but they're out there in, unfortunately, surprisingly large numbers

I'll apologise one last time for the offense caused and for the course of the conversion that went on an unhelpful and unrelated tangent on my behalf. It wasn't intended and I feel I've been pretty clear in explaining that. If you chose to not believe me then that's your choice.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Unfortunately Micros would never get their kegs out like that.

I presume they would all belong to a federation so it would be easy to implement some rule to safeguard their kegs, two words I hate is 'never can' and can't.

The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production

That would be spot on.

 

[philmud]

The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production

The only way I'd buy that is if the cost of recovery exceeded the cost of theft (which it might, I have no idea!). The big boys all have shareholders to consider, so they're interested in anything affecting the bottom line.

 

[Mardoo]

And all the big boys are largely selling to bound houses.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Lots of industries cost in losses expected and if they were serious about share holders think how easy it would be to implement a secure return system and leave that loss factor in their costings.
It is not dissimilar for companies giving out free quotes they will know what their strike rate is on a successful quote and factor the costs in to their product or service.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

 

[Bridges]

Theft by finding is still theft. Just a different charge. selling stolen goods is another charge. I'm surprised that the smaller brewers don't involve the police in these cases more often.
Advertising for sale stolen goods on gumtree would be a pretty easy case to prosecute you'd think.

 

[CrookedFingers]

A level of respect for others needs to be exercised in this day and age.
Theft is theft, and it is pretty much as selfish as people get…."oh look, thats not mine, but I want it. Ill just take it".
What a rubbish attitude.

I can't stand that the poor innocent beer is the victim, thats the beers way of getting from brewery to my belly !

 

[manticle]

I said I would leave the matter entirely, but seeing as you're doing exactly what you're blaming me for and drawing a conclusion despite me writing to contrary, I'm going to try to clarify that specific point once more as its not sitting well with me.

I clearly exempted you from that example by both a paragraph break, a reference to the poster who was blatantly supporting a blame the victim mentality and in my subsequent post where I said I thought that would be obvious because you didn't blame the victim in the example of the wallet I used. It was more a justification of why I would enter the discussion in the first place and then that poster with that mentality came along and proved exactly what I was talking about. I had my house broken into two weeks ago through an upstairs bathroom window I left open and that ******** mentality suggests it's my fault.

It wasn't a comment on you, or even him. It was making a point about a culture that finds it acceptable to place blame on the person who has done nothing wrong, for something wrong that happens to them. Only a true ******* would agree with the assault example I used, but they're out there in, unfortunately, surprisingly large numbers

I'll apologise one last time for the offense caused and for the course of the conversion that went on an unhelpful and unrelated tangent on my behalf. It wasn't intended and I feel I've been pretty clear in explaining that. If you chose to not believe me then that's your choice.

Accepted and understood.

Clearly the attitude you refer to is ****** (no argument there) so you can understand why I don't want my comments even remotely associated by implication, inference or any connection whatsover.

 

[Dave70]

I can see some form of polymer keg in the future to make it less attractive to thieves.

Which would be kind of like leaving your 2000 model Kia Rio in the street. Idling. With the drivers door open.

 

[Yob]

(some) Kegs now days are being made with GPS locators... gotta help surely.. but there is still a cost to monitor and retrieve, if one outweighs the other I dunno.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Which would be kind of like leaving your 2000 model Kia Rio in the street. Idling. With the drivers door open.

is Wilbur's wallet on the bonnet?

 

[pcmfisher]

One of CUB's solutions for losing kegs in the 90s was instead of paying their subby drivers $1 to deliver a full keg and 10c to pick up an empty, they made it 50c for a full and 50c to pick up an empty.
The drivers would actually go out of their way to pick up empty kegs rather than saying "Nah, got no room, I'll get them next week."

The publicans don't give a rat's about the empty kegs because, as far as I know, there is no consequence for losing them.

 

[Dave70]

is Wilbur's wallet on the bonnet?

Yes, but only as an incentive to steel the Kia.
His wallet and the TapouT seat covers from Supercheap.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

If I had a Kia Rio with Tapout seat covers then I would deserve to have my wallet stolen.

I guess there's an exception to everything and you just found it.

 

[Dave70]

Not much point pinching the wallet.
What good would a low income concession card with photo ID be to anybody else?






Sorry, thats not very nice. Ive been watching to much Frankie Boyle standup lately.
Or not enough.

 

[philmud]

The problem is that our judiciary is unimaginative. People caught on-selling stolen kegs should be forced to participate in a real life reconstruction of Donkey Kong whereby a gorilla (or a really hairy man, if gorillas are unable to be trained) throws the stolen kegs at them.