Hybrid BIAB setup advice

[hwall95]

Hey guys,

Just been playing with a few ideas lately in terms of a biab setup. My main concern for brewing would be lack of efficency and cloudy/dirty beer so have done a bit of reading about solutions and have come up with the following drawing (Apologies for the shitty drawing, drew it on my laptop without a mouse). It's possibly an overkill but as long as it works well for a range of low gravity to high gravity beers for 20-25L batches and has a good consistency then I don't really mind.

So basically the main idea is mash in an insulated 50L pot which has a fake bottom primarily so I can raise the temp through direct heat without having to worry about scorchin' the bag or anything and hopefully to act as kinda filter. Then once mashing is done, it is drained into a 60L fermentor and then once the first part is finished draining I batch sparge.

Once all the wort is draining, I clean out the pot and add the wort back in, through it through a stainless steel filter from inside the hose just to hopefully clean out a few particles and hopefully produce cleaner beer.

Then the rest of the brewing is as per normal, boil, hops, whirlpool, cool/or no cool etc.

The main reason I'm using the 60L fermentor is we tend not to really do double matches often so i thought we may as well put it to good use, and it's fair cheaper then buying the buying another large pot. If anyone has any thoughts or advice it would be really appreciated. Still all ideas and won't get around to making this until mid-November so plenty of time to figure things out.

Cheers,
Harry

 

[contrarian]

Is this a modification of your current setup or a new build? If you haven't been doing BIAB already then I would suggest that this seems like a fairly cumbersome way to improve efficiency and clarity, nether of which is a major problem for many brewers who BIAB.

If you are already doing BIAB and having issues with clarity and efficiency then there might be some other possibilities that are less labour intensive and just as effective!

 

[hwall95]

No this is for a new build. Haven't done a full AG brew yet but some partial and lots of full extracts, but I was thinking I may as well get it fully setup and finalise a methodology prior to trying it for the first time to avoid and low efficiencies or problems on the day.

My main thinking was if I was able to drain the wort prior to batching sparging i could get more water evenly over the grain bed which would hopefully lead to greater consistency and efficiency rather the having to hold hold the bag up and while sparging. I probably just worrying about problems that aren't even problems and over designing a simple process..

 

[shmang]

I probably just worrying about problems that aren't even problems and over designing a simple process..

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

I've done a dozen or so BIAB batch's and have never had bad efficiency or cloudy/dirty beer due to the BIAB process.
Enjoy BIAB for what it is, simple and effective. It is a great way to learn the all grain process and I have no intentions of changing in the future.
I would be more concerned with good fermentation practices.

Just my thoughts :beer:

 

[hwall95]

Okay I just kept it simple then, no point in over complicating it. If you use direct heat, have you had an issues with the bag burning? If not, saves getting a false bottom if it's not required.

 

[DU99]

we all do it different ,we all achieve a result even if it's Lrg's two bucket to a fancy 3v,or braumeister..

If want some ideas try norcal

 

[Phoney]

You're concerned about efficiency and cloudy/dirty beer when you haven't even started AG brewing? Dude. Remember the KISS principle, and worry about those problems if and when you get them. Chances are you won't, and if you do then as others have mentioned there are many other things you could do to improve on that. Grain crush, fermentation schedule, filtering, cold crashing etc.

 

[verysupple]

I'm in the KISS camp. For the first few brews follow a bog standard method - be it BIAB or whatever else. My reasoning is that the common methods are common because they work. Once you've done it a few times and have everything figured out you can start to make modifications to improve the areas that your system maybe isn't so great at. But trust me on this, it doesn't matter how much reading you've done, it's different in the real world. To an extent you can't predict what problems will occur or what techniques will work until you've tried them.

I started with a BigW pot, then got a second one, and am now designing a new recirculating rig. All of these changes have come about because I looked at what I was achieving and identified areas to improve (my initial method worked fine I just like tinkering ).

I guess my point is, don't over engineer it before you've even tried it. You'll probably just solve problems that would never have existed. But equally, you won't be able to design a flawless system without tweaking it anyway.

 

[PaleRider]

Agree with what the others have said, as I sit beside my 5th biab brew boiling away as I type.
For piece of mind I'd recommend you head over to Basic Brewing Radio & look for their many biab podcasts. Very informative & should put your concerns at rest.
Cheers, Matt

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Yup, solve problems that actually exist. 90% of what we worry about doesn't occur.

 

[Red Rocket]

By tipping the fermenter filled with wort back into the pot you are going to be aerating the wort, which you want to avoid.

I remove the bag place in a 15 liter plastic bucket which sits on top of a 30L fermenter perfectly and sparge. Holes drilled in the bottom of the 15L bucket allow the wort to be collected below. Allow to drain, a gentle squeeze of the bag and return wort gently to the pot. By taking refractometer readings before and after this process I have found on average an increase in gravity of 5 points.

If you want to use a false bottom so you can leave the bag in the pot on the way to mash out by all means go ahead that's fine but

 

[Red Rocket]

But don't go step mashing straight away, just get the hang of a single infusion first.

 

[mje1980]

I have a keggle, a bag, 3 ring burner, cheap digi thermometer and my arms. Beers are just as good as when I had a 3v. Bells n whistles look great but also add extra variables that can give you dramas. Ask some of the guys here with full blown setups how long it took to get them dialled in.

If you love mucking around then go for gold by all means. Don't upgrade because you think you have to to make great beers.

 

[shmang]

If you use direct heat, have you had an issues with the bag burning? If not, saves getting a false bottom if it's not required.

I grab a cake cooling rack and stick it in the bottom before I mash in, holds the bag off the bottom quite nicely, but because I'm paranoid I usually hoist the back up a bit as well whilst I apply the heat. The only major recommendation I have is do a mash out and get a nice pulley set up if possible, saves standing over the kettle holding the now wet and heavy grain up whilst it drains.

For piece of mind I'd recommend you head over to Basic Brewing Radio & look for their many biab podcasts. Very informative & should put your concerns at rest.
Cheers, Matt

I cant recommend Basic Brewing enough, I've learn a lot from listening and watching James, Steve and their guests.

 

[hwall95]

Thanks for the helpful advice guys, don't know where my brewing would be without this site; would definitely be far shittier beer!

With the dirty/cloudy beer (should of said wort) I was meaning more post-boil rather then final product, as I've always wondered how people get the wort to be so crystal clear straight after a mash or the boil in comparison to my partial attempts which were cloudy as my extract wort. Final product wise, I just cold crash and the beers always come out clear as glass but surely having clear wort would save a lot of the non-yeast trub in the bottom of the fermenter.

But don't go step mashing straight away, just get the hang of a single infusion first.

Sorry should of explained better, I'm definitely not step mashing straight away. I was mainly more concerned for the mash out as from what I've read it is quite advantageous for BIAB, but the cake cooling rake sounds like a far better and cheaper solution then a false bottom so I'll investigate that idea - cheers shmang!

Agree with what the others have said, as I sit beside my 5th biab brew boiling away as I type.
For piece of mind I'd recommend you head over to Basic Brewing Radio & look for their many biab podcasts. Very informative & should put your concerns at rest.
Cheers, Matt

Thanks for the info about the Basic Brewing PaleRider, will definitely watch and read some of their stuff, should be really helpful.

Once again, cheers guys. Can't wait to get into AG and will finally have greater control over the body, sweetness and colour of the brew.