Hop stand temperature

[tugger]

I'm interested to hear you learned people's methods for chilling and hop stand temps for hoppy beers.


My self I chill over 30 mins in the pot with whirlpool additions at 90c 70c and 50c.
How about you, what do you think your method brings to the beer.

 

[dannymars]

I chill to 80C... add hops, let stand for 30mins...

Then chill again to 60C... add more hops, let stand for 30mins...

Then chill to pitching temp..

Gives me that really juicy, saturated and deep hop flavour.

 

[louistoo]

Been playing with hop addition timing and on the last pale went 60 calculated as 72 for half ibu's then flame out calc'd as a 12 min addition for other half ibu's then steep for 20 min, chill to 80c then go 4-5g/l, steep for at least 20 or so min then chill to fermenter with immersion chiller.
This has proven to give a good bitterness based on adding 12mins to hop additions, great hop flavor and good aroma though I also dry hop at 4-5g/l too. I think timing of packaging post dry hop and when you dry hop re. fermentation are pretty telling factors regarding aroma impact. Still got a bit of work to do there otherwise I recommend this process

 

[tugger]

Interesting.
It seems a lot of people use 80c as there steep temp, not just here but from others I have spoken to.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I've just starting experimenting this for my brews. I like the theory of getting hops flavour and aroma without raising the IBU's by adding under 80c but I still worry about an open wort under 60c. So I start chilling (immersion chiller) for a couple of minutes then throw in the hops while its decreasing in temp. Then Cap the keggle for the remaining chilling time. (a modified pizza tray with a cut out for the chiller stem with sanitized chux towels to smother all gaps etc) Whirl the wort with the chiller. Chilling can take an hour for 40lt.
I'm always still disappointed losing hop aroma after the beers been on tap for a week. Its there when the beer is green but chilling and carbonation seems to supress it a lot. Guess I'm being a harsher critic as well.

 

[kaiserben]

Here's my go-to info for decisions about hop stands:

(Full article = https://byo.com/mead/item/2808-hop-stands)

[SIZE=13.3333px]The second factor to consider is the length of your hop stand. There are no right or wrong answers, but anywhere from 10 minutes to 90 minutes — or even an overnight stand — can be employed. For most super-charged, hop-forward beers, my hop stands will run 45 to 60 minutes. For a mid-range hop profile like an American pale ale or [/SIZE][SIZE=13.3333px]a beer I am looking to get a significant IBU contribution from, I will usually shorten that stand to 30 minutes. If the beer is not to be hop forward nor do I need significant IBU from the hop stand, then 10–15 minute hop stand usually will suffices.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.3333px]Three temperature profiles that seem to be popular among homebrewers are just off boil range (88–100 °C), the sub-isomerization range (71–77 °C), and a tepid hop stand range (60–66 °C). The (88–100 °C) range will allow essential oils with higher flashpoints an easier time to solubulize into the wort and also will allow some alpha acid isomerization to occur with the best estimates of between 5–15% utilization. Some homebrewers will keep their kettle burner on low to keep the temperature of the wort elevated above (93 °C) during their extended hop stands which would better emulate the conditions in commercial whirlpools. A hop stand in the (71–77 °C) range will basically shut down the alpha acid isomerization reaction and the lower temperatures will reduce the vaporization of the essential oils. Homebrewers can use their wort chillers to bring the wort down to this range before adding the knockout hops or they can add a second dose of knockout hops. The (60–66 °C) range will once again reduce vaporization of the low flashpoint oils, but may take longer to get the same amount of essential oils extracted.[/SIZE]

 

[mattfos01]

Like others I knock it down to 80 with an immersion chiller and then add the steep hops. Leave it for 20 then chill down to as close as pitching as my immersion can get me. I recently was listening to a podcast re DMS and leaving wort at warm temps for an extended period. Not sure if it impacts at my 20 lt scale but is another thing I have been thinking about.

 

[spog]

Interesting topic,I had a go yesterday through necessity being Mothers Day.
My last 3 hop additions were Au Cascade.
15g @ 20 mins
20g@ 10 mins
15g @ 5 mins
Then I had to piss off to a Mothers Day lunch,the brew sat in the keggle for 4 hours ( covered ) until I got back and started chilling to pitching temp....then into the fermentor.
The sample tasted very nice and I can imagine what it'll be like when done and carbed,I reckon I will be giving this Hop stand temp more attention in future,get as much as I can from hop use.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Especially if using flowers I think. Pellets are like quick release but flowers are a different story. The good lupulin stuff is deep in and shielded.
I have coarsely chopped them frozen. Either that or next time I may blast my flowers in a blender/ food processor. Or sit out another hour hop stand.

 

[Bribie G]

Tugger, thanks for the OP

As a no chiller I haven't really gone into the subject of hop stands.
However it seems quite appropriate for no chill.

I don't NC in a big cube, I use two 10L cubes that cool a lot quicker due to surface / volume ratio.

I brewed an English IPA today and was intending to do bittering additions for 60 then 30 minutes, put hops in cube to receive boiling wort and treat them as a 10 minute addition, then a couple of dry hops later on.

However after reading the thread I did the bittering additions (Admiral and Northdown) but after running into cubes, kept a check on temperature using a laser / IR thermo.

At 80 I did an addition of Challenger

Then at 65 a further addition of Northdown

And will finally dry hop with Challenger at four days.

I haven't been able to get the complex hop profile of brews like OSH or TTL without excess harsh bitterness, so I'm looking forward to the results of this brew.

Of course it's a given that having opened the cubes and popped additions in at lower temperatures I'll be pitching in the morning.

 

[technobabble66]

Hey Bribie,
You may already have thought about this and be doing those 80°C & 65°C cube additions for extra reasons, but ... the reason i thought everyone was dropping to those temps is to reduce the volatilising off of the hops oils (most of their boiling temps are between 60-72°C, mentioned earlier here, i think).
That is, the water/wort may not be boiling, but the oils are effectively "boiling"/volatizing off into the air & disappear before they can be captured by whatever wort chemistry is also going on and incorporated/"locked" into the wort.
On the up-side, the higher the temps, the better that "incorporating" chemistry should be working.
Hence you get the tricky choice of high temps giving lots of losses but what's there gets well incorporated; or low temps giving much lower losses but less effective incorporation.

However, if you chuck your hops into a cube then seal it off, those oils ain't going nowhere!
So you *should* be able to rest assured you're getting maximum incorporation of hops oils into your wort - also both in terms of having the wort at high temps for a good hour or 2, plus at medium temps for several hours. Therefore getting almost no losses and maximising the "incorporating" chemistry.

I'd stress heavily that this is a simplified way of looking at what should theoretically be happening. Basically i could be wrong, but i believe it's right. There's also other considerations, like exposure to hops polyphenols, etc that don't make it the only "best" way to optimise you hops oils.

Apologies for stating details you could probably be teaching me but i just wanted to get down the background of what i now do.

So on the basis on all my theorising, what i do (for pellets) is fill the cube and at the last second throw in the hops and then quickly seal it. This is on the basis that it takes me a few-to-several minutes to fill the cube, during which i could be losing precious hops oils.
Thus far (done on the last 3-4 brews), seems to work very well to get great impact from hops oils.
No side-by-side comparisons, so i can't vouch for it being "best", but it seems pretty damn good to me.

 

[tugger]

Here is a copy and paste of something I found on beersmith.

In addition to alpha acids in your bittering hop addition, there are four main hop oils that can add flavor late in the brewing process – each of which boils off at a different boiling point. Most also rapidly oxidize when exposed to air:

Myrcene – (147 F/63.9 C boil point) – The largest of the hop oils, making up 40-60% of the hop oil content in many American varieties (Cascade has 50-60%), though most noble hops are low in myrcene (Saaz: 5-13%). Mercene boils off readily, and can even volatilize in a high temperature steep (147F), so you will lose it if you boil it. It has a herbal note that can be described as green, balsamic, hoppy in small quantities. It also has a slight piney/citrus flavor. As a result of its low boiling point, it is present in much higher quantities in dry hopped or steep-hopped beers. It tends to provide a “green hop” or fresh hop aroma when used in dry hopping.
Humulene – (210F/99C) – Humulene is the traditional noble hop oil, providing a strong herbal component most people associate with noble hops. Humulene is actually widely used in the perfume industry for its herbal characteristic. Over long boils, it also tends to produce a slightly spicy flavor – such as that from Saaz hops in light lagers or Nugget. Because it boils just below the boiling point of water, it usually provides its best characteristics as either a late boil addition or post-boil addition. Humulene will not survive a long boil, and is also prone to oxidize.
Caryophellene – (262F/129C) – Caryophellene is a counterpoint to humulene – and provides a spicy, woody, earthy and even citrusy flavor. Clove and pepper contain this oil in significant quantities. While not a significant in noble hops, Caryophellene is a major aroma component in many traditional English hops such as Goldings and Northdown as well as many US hops such as Mount Hood. In beer it contributes a strong dry wood, pepper and earthy spice flavor. It may even add a citrus finish. Many hops are rated by their Humulene to Caryophellene ratio with noble hops having a high ratio of 3:1 or more. Caryophellene oxidizes rapidly, so fresh hops must be used and are often added late to preserve the flavor.
Farnesene – (203-257F/95-125C) – Found in the coating of apples and other fruits, it provides the “green apple” flavor as well as flowery, citrusy, woody and at the extreme end musty, woody or vegetative. Farnesene is the smallest of the hop oils – typically less than 1% of the hop oil content, but it can be higher in many noble varieties. Again because it oxidizes rapidly it is best preserved as a late or post boil hop addition.

 

[yankinoz]

What Beersmith calls the boiling points of the various hop oils are actually their flash points. The boiling points are considerably higher, and it's not a trivial error. You are volatilising oils at their flash points, but not nearly so fast as at their boiling points, which are mostly well above that of water. I do hop stands at around 80 C., to slow DMS formation to a crawl, and close the lid so that the atmosphere above the wort retains hop oils, hopefully slowing further volatilisation.

Farnesene is an elusive but wonderful flavour and aroma. As noted above, it is easily lost through oxidation, and many sources say dry hopping is the best way to bring it out. Amounts are slight in most hops, but an order of magnitude higher than most in Saaz, Sterling and Motueka, also fairly high in Tettnang and Styrian Goldings. I've been using Saaz pellets as the sole hop in American wheats, and dry hopping, the idea being to highlight farnesene, and I love the results. Now I read that pelleting reduces farnesene.

Next batch I'll try whole Motueka, which is available in Oz. I'm not sure how much to use in dry hopping and worry that dumping in armfuls as if it were an AIPA will make the beer stink like perfume. Has anyone here dry hopped with Motueka flowers and such, and how much did you use?

I'll post more details on my farnesene wheats, but will be out of brewing for a while due to a move across Victoria to Geelong.

 

[damoninja]

I usually aim for 80 but often overshoot to 75