Hitting the wall

[kaiserben]

Generally speaking I wait until I have 3 days of steady SG readings before racking.

My advice won't fix your low starting gravity issues, but re above: I'd leave it longer.

It may have reached Final Gravity, but the yeast can still clean out some off flavours if left alone for a bit. Generally I leave ales in the fermenter for 3 weeks (or 2 weeks if you really, really have no patience).

Lagers are trickier and take longer. Best to concentrate on getting ales right first.

In regards to the SG issues, It's hard to imagine a LHBS could stuff up on a recipe (but sounds like they did on that Guiness clone???). How are you measuring the volume of water you're using? For example, certain equipment I have (BMW water container/fermenter from Bunnings) has volume markers that are out by about 1.5L at the markers around 20L. If I was using that to measure out water it'd result in me using about 10% too much water (and thus lower than expected OG).

 

[Nizmoose]

Thanks for the tip on the slightly lower temps. I have read the online 'how to brew' and certain chapters I have read a few times. My average ferment for the primary has been ~10 days. I take my first SG read on day 7 and then another 2 times over the next couple of days and then rack off the day after that. Would the extra 4 days on the cake make significant difference with an ale?

Another thought, my beer storage room is about 26c. I rack off to a bottling bucket, into bottles/kegs and store in here. Would I get strange flavours from a warmer secondary? Sure hope not, I'd need a cool room to store all the beer @ 20c...

26c for bottle conditioning is fine imo, buuuuut thats what I'd say after its had a good ferment. The yeast need time to clean up secondary compounds or off flavours after they've achieved your final gravity so in short yes, those extra days would make a difference. I used to ferment for two weeks, check that it had hit terminal SG by the end of the second week, then let it go for another week before cold crashing but that long is probably uneccesary, If I was you I'd do what youre doing, but then up the temp to say 20C after your ten days till the two week mark, then cold crash for two days then bottle. See how much that changes.

 

[pcmfisher]

@azztech, Have you ever tried anyone elses home brew beer that you thought was as good as you were expecting yours to be?

Has anyone else had a taste of yours?

 

[azztech]

As others have stated make sure your yeast handling procedures are in accordance with good sound practices.

Are you sprinkling the dry yeast onto the wort or onto the foam created when you shook the **** out of the fermenter as this may be causing some issues with the number of yeast cells making it into the wort

Others may/will disagree but according to the manufacturers good practice is to rehydrate the yeast prior to pitching see here for a typical procedure http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/04/03/dry-yeast-in-home-brewed-beer/

Following rehydration as above you should then condition the yeast slurry by tempering it to the same temperature you are pitching it into by adding a small amount of wort to your rehydration vessel followed by a second dose say 10 mins later and THEN pitch this total volume into your fermenter

According to what I have read failure to do the above will have a detrimental effect on the number of yeast cells that survive the rehydration process and into the wort as the yeast can be stressed and die by being rehydrated in the sweet wort rather than warm water

As I said you will find as many proponents that say pitching direct into the fermenter works for them but hey you are having issues so take a word out of the manufacturers book and rehydrate according to their recommended procedure as Fermentis details here http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-tricks/yeast-rehydration/

Hope this helps

Cheers

Wobbly

Hey Wobbly,

This is the extract on re-hydration from the manufacturer:

Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes. Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition.

I do the alternative, which I would have assumed still to be 9/10 effective if they're saying it's an alternative. To be precise, I sprinkle onto the shaken-to-**** foam leave for 30 minutes and gently swirl by rotating the FV. Then straight off to the fridge which is probably a little more swirling en route.

 

[Yob]

if you are pitching onto foam, its not really hydrating though right? it isn't in contact with the wort..

FWIW, I always rehydrated in water and added wort at 5min intervals to get to the right temperature.. I still do this now that I mostly make starters and use liquid yeasts.

Bad habits start the easiest and last the longest

 

[azztech]

@azztech, Have you ever tried anyone elses home brew beer that you thought was as good as you were expecting yours to be?

Has anyone else had a taste of yours?

Nope! Are you insinuating that all HB tastes awful (to me)? Hadn't really thought of that. I figured HB should taste like commercial beer if you're not botching it.

 

[Mikeyr]

And shaking up the wort?? Adding in some oxygen, Yobs got a point, the sprinkle method is the least effective of all the choices .... and ditto, has anyone else tried the beer and not liked it?

Maybe the styles not really your cup of steeped hops. We've all done those i reckon!

 

[azztech]

if you are pitching onto foam, its not really hydrating though right? it isn't in contact with the wort..

FWIW, I always rehydrated in water and added wort at 5min intervals to get to the right temperature.. I still do this now that I mostly make starters and use liquid yeasts.

Bad habits start the easiest and last the longest

Wellll.... I'm not a scientist but foam is still a fluid right? It's still getting wet and thus hydrated, of course not to the level of actual wort but then it is being further introduced with the swirling thereafter.

By no means saying you're wrong, but I saw this method in a few american youtube vids and it made enough sense to me (the n00b).

I'll definitely try re-hydrating on the next one. I almost did it on the last one but I read it was a delicate process and even easier to kill your yeast that way if not done right - didn't sound good for a novice.

 

[Yob]

don't listen to yanks...

 

[wobbly]

if you are pitching onto foam, its not really hydrating though right? it isn't in contact with the wort..

FWIW, I always rehydrated in water and added wort at 5min intervals to get to the right temperature.. I still do this now that I mostly make starters and use liquid yeasts.

Bad habits start the easiest and last the longest

I do exactly the same and have never had a yeast issue with my beer fermentation albeit that I use a different process to a standard plastic fermenter

Follow this, which is basically the manufactures "preferred" yeast rehydration process, and you can cross yeast of your list as possible causes for your issues

Wobbly

 

[Nizmoose]

For the love of God lets drop the yeast subject before this turns into another nightmare of a thread

 

[wobbly]

For the love of God lets drop the yeast subject before this turns into another nightmare of a thread

Yeah stick your head in the sand if you wish but poor yeast practices can/will/do result in crappy tasting beer

As was said above get the yeast practice right and you can tick that of as a possible issue

Wobbly

 

[azztech]

Regarding joining a beer club, I would liken joining a beer club, 7 brews in to joining a swimming club when you're 30kg overweight and pastey white. Wouldn't I save myself some ridicule by waiting until I had some experience under my belt?

 

[Diesel80]

Azztech,

get a FWK (any pale ale) and ferment it under temp control with Nottingham yeast, 18-20 degrees.
Leave it for 10 days, raise to 22 for 4 days, then step down to 1 degrees over the next couple of days and then hold there for 3 days.

Package and carbonate beer. Enjoy after appropriate conditioning time.

You have all the cleanliness side of it sorted. Sounds like something with the receipe or ferment causing grief.

I say Nottingham because it is ravenous, reliable and it drops like a stone when the temp drops. It is also very neutral.

F*cking foolproof mate.

Cheers,
D80

 

[bradsbrew]

Regarding joining a beer club, I would liken joining a beer club, 7 brews in to joining a swimming club when you're 30kg overweight and pastey white. Wouldn't I save myself some ridicule by waiting until I had some experience under my belt?

No, that is a reason for joining. Brew clubs have brewers of all different experience and types of brewing. Take a beer or 2 and you should walk away with great advice and feedback, if not join a different club.

Also a good homebrew shop is another place to take a beer for feedback. You will be highly suprised with what an experienced brewer can pick up on and give advice. The key is that it is a good brew store.

 

[Spiesy]

Regarding joining a beer club, I would liken joining a beer club, 7 brews in to joining a swimming club when you're 30kg overweight and pastey white. Wouldn't I save myself some ridicule by waiting until I had some experience under my belt?

No. You'll be on the fast-track to sorting out your issues.

The best asset I had when I started brewing was mates who had been brewing for years. I jumped straight in the "deep end" with all grain and kegging and haven't looked back. Personally I feel that reading and watching videos is great, but talking to someone in person and seeing things in person (and been able to interact and ask questions) is the best way to learn.

Advice and camaraderie from a local brew club will certainly get you on the right track, and I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself.

 

[Nizmoose]

Yeah stick your head in the sand if you wish but poor yeast practices can/will/do result in crappy tasting beer

As was said above get the yeast practice right and you can tick that of as a possible issue

Wobbly

It was more along the lines of sure use best yeast practices but stressing about rehydration or not is probably not the pinnacle of concern for a new brewer and of course that's just an opinion. Sprinkling on top or rehydration with dried yeast should and do both work fine for different people

 

[madpierre06]

Nope! Are you insinuating that all HB tastes awful (to me)? Hadn't really thought of that. I figured HB should taste like commercial beer if you're not botching it.

Nope...HB is more likely to be very far removed from commercial beer if you're not botching it.

And welcome aboard, lad. Yarrrggghhhh!

Re-edit...go into Cellarbrations at Bowen Hills, The Stafford, or Everton park and ask for a small variety of different styles of their best craft beers, taste 'em, then get your head around what real crafted beer tastes like. At your best, you'll be able to make beers thast resembles these. decently made Hb won't taste anything like most commercial beers as they have no real taste. IMHO

 

[azztech]

Nope...HB is more likely to be very far removed from commercial beer if you're not botching it.

And welcome aboard, lad. Yarrrggghhhh!

Re-edit...go into Cellarbrations at Bowen Hills, The Stafford, or Everton park and ask for a small variety of different styles of their best craft beers, taste 'em, then get your head around what real crafted beer tastes like. At your best, you'll be able to make beers thast resembles these. decently made Hb won't taste anything like most commercial beers as they have no real taste. IMHO

I should probably clarify that I consider anything I can buy at a bottlo to be commercial, so I still consider craft brew to be commercial. ****, craft brews are a lot better than VB and XXXX but they still don't taste like baboon arse like some of my first HBs

 

[madpierre06]

:lol: I actually recall seeing the idea for a Baboon Scrotum IPA or something like that elsewhere